welcome home: have two rejection letters!

[octarineoboe]

Searching for a job has to be the single most demoralizing thing I have ever, ever experienced. I got home from a trip to NYC today, which was great fun, to find not one but TWO rejection letters waiting for me. The first one didn't surprise me; it came very quickly after I'd submitted my application, I wasn't really well qualified, and I probably waited too long to send it anyway. So that was a minor disappointment, but it wasn't a full-time job and it's in the wrong city anyway, so, whatever.

But the other one. I've been stressing out about this for more than a month now, because it would have been PERFECT - a history museum job in the city I wanted (where I went to college and where my boyfriend and a number of other friends still live). I am qualified, and I shamelessly worked the few connections I had, asking my senior thesis adviser to promote me to his contacts at that museum. I submitted my application on July 10th and followed up (by email, at my adviser's suggestion) three weeks later. Through my adviser I sort of already knew that I didn't get the job. He told me they were setting up interviews and I knew I hadn't been asked for one. But the thing is, this rejection letter - received on August 13, more than a month later - was the first contact from the museum.

And that pisses me off beyond belief. Until today, I didn't even know if they received my application, because they couldn't do me the damn courtesy of taking ten seconds to reply to my email. It's not just them, either, I've had this experience an number of times. "Busy" or "we received tons of applications" should not be an excuse for "rude." And, dear HR departments of the world, if you really have too many applications to respond to, hire me to do it. Seriously, if you don't want people to call you asking for more information, give it to them before they need to ask. It's not complicated and it won't take that much time, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who could do it for you for a measly wage.

This system is obnoxious, yes, but even beyond that, I'm personally worried. If I can't even get an interview for a job in my field that I was qualified for, how am I ever going to find anything? I've read from people in museums on LinkedIn and some other places that you should volunteer and intern and it's a slog and you have to gain experience - well, ok, but am I supposed to keep living with my parents in a city where I don't have any friends for three years so I can spend one day a week inventorying collections? I don't want to do that, and I am not pleased about entering a field that relies on un- or under-paid labor and often requires a master's degree, meaning it's something only people who can afford to not make money for a while can do. I already have $20,000 in student loans from undergrad - admittedly by my own choice, and that's fine - but it means I can't take on more for a master's and certainly not if I'm going to have to volunteer for another year after getting that master's. But I have no earthly idea what else I'm going to do or what I want to do.

Useless advice I have received includes:
- find your passion! Yeah, whatever. Tell me how to make money at my passion or make money to pursue some other passion and then we'll talk.
- Travel while you're young and unattached! First, are you making a contribution to the Unemployed Graduate Travels Fund? And second, do relationships (and not just romantic ones, but friendships too) formed under age 25 just not count or something?
- Humanities majors can do anything because you can write and communicate and that's what employers really value! yeah, ok, then why has no one hired me? Related to this one is "just find a job while you figure out what you really want." No shit, people, that's been my goal all along. If it were that simple I'd have a job already.

And I guess I do, strictly speaking, because I'm in training to teach SAT prep courses, but it's part-time in the wrong place and if I can't significantly raise my math score on the test I won't pass training, so there's that. I have a meeting later this week with an old professor to talk about graduate school options, including careers after them, so maybe that will give me some more direction, and the science museum where I volunteer may be applying for a grant for two two-year positions, and I bet I could get the collections manager to seriously consider me. So it's not like I have no prospects or I'm just sitting around complaining about it, but it's incredibly frustrating and it's only getting worse as the school year starts and it sinks in that this isn't as temporary as I want it to be. I just don't know how I'm supposed to hold together well enough to go through this process indefinitely and not become totally cynical, despairing, and angry at the world.

[rowan]

I sympathise. And it's not just humanities people having trouble getting jobs. Also, with the employers not responding at all, I totally know where you're coming from. And the bit about the 'temporary' stuff.

I've more stuff I could share but as this is in an open place I won't. Suffice to say: I understand.

[Sonic#]

This system is obnoxious, yes, but even beyond that, I'm personally worried. If I can't even get an interview for a job in my field that I was qualified for, how am I ever going to find anything? I've read from people in museums on LinkedIn and some other places that you should volunteer and intern and it's a slog and you have to gain experience - well, ok, but am I supposed to keep living with my parents in a city where I don't have any friends for three years so I can spend one day a week inventorying collections? I don't want to do that, and I am not pleased about entering a field that relies on un- or under-paid labor and often requires a master's degree, meaning it's something only people who can afford to not make money for a while can do. I already have $20,000 in student loans from undergrad - admittedly by my own choice, and that's fine - but it means I can't take on more for a master's and certainly not if I'm going to have to volunteer for another year after getting that master's. But I have no earthly idea what else I'm going to do or what I want to do.

All of this paragraph, but especially the first two paragraphs, really hit me. I'm a humanities graduate student, coming close to the point when I become an academic job candidate. I'm qualified to teach several specific things, but there are more people qualified to do what I do than there are jobs. (Or there are fewer jobs than there are qualified people, to cut the crap cake another way.) It's not as easy as finding a way to stand out, because so many people who have reached my point have already heard that advice and has tried to do so by publishing more, by doing more service work, by building more connections. It comes down to a point where, no matter what I do, I'm only improving how I look.There's no guarantee I'll be a professor, even if my students always love me and my adviser thinks that my work is the best.

People that I know in my situation have found things. They often found employment on the tenure-track. Or they found post-docs (like interning), adjunct positions, work in administration, or something off the beaten path (business? radio?). I take heart in their success - finding a place is possible, even given the uncertainty in both the job market and bits of my own uncertainty on what I want and am willing to do. On the other hand, that uncertainty really really sucks and no amount of blithe advice can take away the sting or the effects of rejection. I wish you luck in finding a way through it.

[Eravial]

Man, that whole lot sucks. I'm sort of in a similar boat. I just graduated with a biology degree, but I am massively underemployed in a commission sales job at the moment. I'm unsettlingly content, though, because I'm making far more than I would be in any job I could get in biology right out of undergrad. I wanted to be a professor for years and years, but seeing what that entails, including a decade or more of very hard work for very little pay without any guarantee of professorship, has really caused me to question what I even want to do. A very brilliant post-doc I worked under for a while in undergrad was in his early 30s still making a very small salary compared to his education and experience. He continued in this position for a few years (under two extremely well-renowned biologists) without any new prospects, and is thus, at age 35, leaving biology and pursuing a culinary career. The stories I've heard, including your experience this summer, have really confused me as far as where the overlap is between what I can do, what I love to do, and what will actually pay a decent wage. I am planning on going back to grad school at some point, but first I'm just trying to figure out what I can and want to do with my life.

It seems to me that the only people who make money in this country are businesspeople. There is very little room for science for science's sake, art for art's sake, knowledge for knowledge's sake, etc. Everything done or made has to have direct, foreseeable monetary returns, or it isn't worth paying people to do. Damn capitalism.

[jaqui87]

That sucks! I hope you find a job that you will be happy with very soon!

[rowan]

Damn capitalism.

For sure.

People whine and complain that we're losing our cutting edge in technology and science. But we won't pay people a decent wage to do those things. Well, guess what? Of course we're losing our cutting edge.

[monk]

It seems to me that the only people who make money in this country are businesspeople.

and they do it

by building more connections.

It took me many years to realize this, but it's the people connections that make success happen. Whether it's in your chosen field or some temporary thing you need to make those personal connections and nourish them. Linkdin, facebook et al. are all good but too many people are using and relying on them. The people who get success are the ones to take that effort to make the personal connections.

if you don't want people to call you asking for more information,give it to them before they need to ask.

Someone may have told you this, do not listen to them. You should have had the name and a personal email address and phone number of either the head of their HR or the person responsible for hiring the position. Then you should keep in casual but regular touch with this person, say an email or phone call once a week to know how they are coming along/if they are interviewing yet. This serves two purposes, first it keeps you informed so you're not so frustrated, second, and more important, when the hiring people start to choose interviewees when they pull up your resume they are reminded of your pleasant voice/polite correspondence gives you points to the interview yes pile vs the no pile.

Also, if it so happens that you do not make the cut you should send them yet one more note thanking them for their consideration and inquiring if they have any other positions you might be interested in. Make these people your contacts, be awesome and at some point one of them is going to call you.

Sadly, no matter how awesome you are at what you do or know with todays horrible unemployment it's the people you know that make the most difference.

This is why those internships and one day a week deals work, it lets the people who already work at a place get to know you and decide if they want you around full time because they know you and like you

[rowan]

You should have had the name and a personal email address and phone number of either the head of their HR or the person responsible for hiring the position.

This is not always possible.

But if you can then that's great. Pretty much the rest of what monk says I agree with. Honestly it's a pita, all the networking. But you gotta do it - and try not to take it personally when it doesn't work out. It is exhausting though.

[octarineoboe]

Damn capitalism.

For sure.

People whine and complain that we're losing our cutting edge in technology and science. But we won't pay people a decent wage to do those things. Well, guess what? Of course we're losing our cutting edge.

Yup. Same thing with arts, although with less whining.

Monk - I'm definitely going to try being more persistent the next time around, because clearly I've got nothing to lose. As for this:

This is why those internships and one day a week deals work, it lets the people who already work at a place get to know you and decide if they want you around full time because they know you and like you

yeah, I know, I get that, but what I don't get is how I'm supposed to do that AND pay for things like rent, and food, and utilities. The minute someone gives me a viable suggestion on this I'll implement it, but otherwise volunteering/interning is a method that works if you have the resources. For me, living on my parents' resources isn't worth the sanity cost (though that's a whole other rant).

Thanks for the sympathy in general, guys. Sonic, I really appreciate your acknowledgment that all the advice in the world doesn't make it any easier. Eravial, I think there's nothing wrong with changing your mind and taking some time to figure it out, but again, it requires some other resources - which it sounds like you have from your sales job.

[great girl wonder]

Ugh. Sorry the shit cake is plenty for you.

Talk to everyone. On the bus, in stores or where ever. You never know who knows someone or knows an edge for a company. Being friendly helps, in the very least it makes you feel like you are trying harder. Small talk can lead to big talk.

[monk]

Small talk can lead to big talk.

That is awesome advice.

[Mathmo]

Ugh. More sympathy coming your way from me the whole setup really sucks.

what I don't get is how I'm supposed to do that AND pay for things like rent, and food, and utilities. The minute someone gives me a viable suggestion on this I'll implement it, but otherwise volunteering/interning is a method that works if you have the resources. For me, living on my parents' resources isn't worth the sanity cost (though that's a whole other rant).

Absolutely. This is a major problem in various sectors in the UK too (e.g. politics, fashion and journalism). Guess what, if you don't pay your interns properly (if at all) then the only people who are able to work for no pay for 2-3 years are those who have families who already live in London and can afford to support them! Gosh, not like that reinforces privilege/the class system ... I have a friend who volunteers at a small museum, and every so often they apparently worry about the fact that it's only middle-aged white women who work there, and she's like "well, that might be because it's only middle-aged middle-class women with partners who can support them who can afford to do this ... custard creams don't pay the mortgage".

I hope that you find a way to do things that you love and make a living. I was on a trip with my boss yesterday - at the moment I work in educational research - and I am so glad I'm getting out; she was talking about colleagues who are super-qualified and can't find any work, or have work but are at the same level I'm on (me, starting with just a BA and no experience; them with more qualifications and 10 years' research experience) - and a lot of the work is part-time, which is rubbish if you want to eat and pay rent full-time. My solution is leaving academia (though that's an easy choice for me as by the time I finished my BA I didn't want to be in it, this particular job just came up) and heading for a 37.5 hr/week programming job which I am sure I will like, pays well enough for me and MrM to live on, and should leave enough time to pursue other hobbies as well. All this "follow your dream" stuff is great, but as you say, money is kind of helpful ... dreams don't pay the rent. And having the money to eat, live, and be near enough to friends that you can make them a regular part of your life is so important. (I'm also with you on "friends made before age 25 totally count"!)

I don't know how this stuff works in the US, but can you do tutoring? You mention SAT prep courses in the wrong place, are there any that could be in the right place? Over here at least tutoring type stuff tends to be well paid (as in, you can charge a lot per hour) and there are various groups/agencies/etc that you can sign up to (although then obviously they take a cut). If you're good at it, you might get referrals by word of mouth. People you know might know people with high-school-aged kids who need a bit of extra help, but might never have thought to ask you?

(I assume you're already doing stuff like signing up to job sites online and getting them to email you suggestions. I think this is helpful not because it turns up lots of jobs you want (I'm sure 90% of the time it doesn't) but because it gives you some idea about what's good/bad so if you see something you want to go for you have some idea of whether that's the going rate, or whether that's pitifully underpaid, or whether it seems generous. (Sorry if I'm stating the obvious).)

Very very best of luck with continued jobhunting ... it is not at all easy.

[octarineoboe]

^

Actually, I haven't signed up for job-site emails, so I should do that. I've been using job sites, but it would definitely be easier and force me to remember to look at things if they emailed me. Thanks for the suggestion!

As for the tutoring and SAT prep stuff - well, yes. The company I'm training with is international, so there's definitely a possibility of transfer, although it's part-time job so it probably won't support me by itself. I don't yet know how many classes I'll have so I can't predict my income very well, and if it's more than I think it is I'll be hightailing it out of here. If it isn't, my boyfriend and I are tentatively planning to move in together in a few months when his job situation is likely to stabilize, and my ability to transfer will be key to that plan. I'm contractually prohibited from teaching/tutoring any other SAT stuff or for working for companies that do, but I could definitely explore independent tutoring for normal homework and such.

You're lucky you like programming! It seems to be the way to go for jobs...my friend kept telling me it wasn't too late to join the computer science dark side, and now I'm thinking I should have taken him up on that. Good luck with your new job!

[octarineoboe]

A couple positive updates that I wanted to share:

- I finally qualified on my math score for the SAT courses, so I'll definitely pass training and have a job and hopefully an ability to transfer. Yay!
- My parents bought me a car yesterday! This was in the works based on the job and while I was nervous about passing that was scary, but now that's locked down and having my own car should make living at home a lot more pleasant.
- A new job opportunity opened up in my university's history department (which was my major, so, my department), and while my strategy basically boils down to "if you liked me as a student - and you did, because remember all those awards and good grades? - you'll love me as department assistant!" I'm excited to have something to apply for where it feels like I have the right networks in place.

Again, thanks for all your encouragement, everyone!

[Mathmo]

Hurray! Great news congratulations on passing the math part of the training! Thanks for the update best of luck with the department assistant thing in particular!

[Aum]

My condolensces. If it's any consolation, a lot of young people are in your situation. Our generation has paid more for education than any other prior, only to enter a job market whose employment rate is the lowest in decades. A lot of skilled jobs are being outsourced to foreign countries where it is cheaper for a company's bottom line, and it's happening so fast that people who started their education programs with hopeful job prospects are being faced with grim ones by the end of their program. Our government has done a really poor job at protecting the domestic market.

I don't think it has a lot to do with the fact that you've done a humanities degree. It's degrees in general - the market is saturated with them. People in science and technology fields can't get jobs either. Experience is now becoming an additional requirement, but there's that lovely catch-22 of not being able to get experience if no one will hire you, or having to be stuck as a moneyless intern.

I don't advise you to go to graduate school if your goal is money and you can't increase your prospects. The only way I would remotely consider graduate school if I were you is if it plugs you directly into co-op or internships that guarantee work once school is done. See: job connections. If the focus will just be on theory, then forget it.

And of course, keep applying for jobs. Don't ever give up. Two rejection letters is not that many. I've had over a dozen and completely gave up on life before I got the call offering me a job. This is how you gotta roll sometimes!