Am I a misogynist? My life feels like an enigma.

[Parogar]

(please understand that I mean nothing that I am about to write to be disrespectful or offensive, and offer my humblest, sincerest apologies if it is taken that way)

I'd like to first state that I've never once--in my entire life--believed that men are in any way, shape, or form, superior to women. There are those that say you cannot be a misogynist without being a sexist, and while that may be the case for most people, it isn't for me.

With that being said, I've found myself in somewhat of an enigma. I am a straight male, but the vast majority of my friends are female. The catch? They themselves are all feminists. I know it sounds tragically ironic, but I seem to be a misogynist that only likes feminists. I assure you this is not a fabrication, as I am not the kind of guy taken to flights of fancy.

I live in Staten Island, which--male or female--is a breeding ground of some of the most idiotic people the world has ever produced. But the people that have really made me suffer throughout my life have always been the women who live here. I'm sure you've seen the stereotype--women that cannot form a complete sentence without using the word "like" ever other word. Women that demonstrate a significant lack of intelligence on a daily basis.

Now, admittedly, one cannot be a true misogynist without a blanket hatred of women. Yet, I find myself prejudging most women before I've even met them. I often let the fact that they're women deter me from being fair and impartial to them, even before I've really given them the chance to prove me otherwise. I make these judgements based on continued disappointment with those I've met prior.

I will confess in the interest of fairness that I do have Asperger's syndrome, so I do not see the world in the same lens as most guys. So part of my... not hate, but strong dislike might be attributed to my disorder. I also recognize that many of the traits that I despise in women are the result of male repression throughout history.

I guess, my real reason for joining this forum is that I hope to find a way of respecting all women, not just the ones that have high I.Qs and can engage in intellectual conversation. I find that feminists use their minds over their bodies, and their brains over their emotions, and I suppose it's why I've always liked them. I don't want to feel so negative about women, but it's hard when on an almost daily basis, I am assaulted by an earth shattering level of stupidity from the Jersey-Shore wannabees that seem to pop up out of the wood work. And it's not one or two out of ten, it's about nine out of the ten I come across.

I SINCERELY hope that I have not offended anyone with this post, as it was never my intent.
Thank you for reading. And I *do* want to change. I am not a chauvinistic pig

[Neko]

Firstly, welcome to the forum. Please do check out our FAQ, it's really helpful.

And, to address your main question, it doesn't sound to me like you're a misogynist. You recognize that not all women are the same as the ones who irritate you and it sounds like you mostly just dislike stupid people. As for judging women before you even speak to them, the fact that you're aware of yourself doing it is a good sign--at least I think so. It's hard to remember to give people the benefit of the doubt when it feels like you're surrounded by a sea of the same brand of idiot.

I think it would help you to start trying to think in terms of People (as a spectrum) rather than just Men and Women--which we refer to as the gender binary. It can be difficult because we're socialized from an early age to think in terms of Boys and Girls when, really, gender varies way beyond that. Since you have feminist friends that could be an interesting topic for you to discuss with them as well.

[Parogar]

Firstly, welcome to the forum. Please do check out our FAQ, it's really helpful.

And, to address your main question, it doesn't sound to me like you're a misogynist. You recognize that not all women are the same as the ones who irritate you and it sounds like you mostly just dislike stupid people. As for judging women before you even speak to them, the fact that you're aware of yourself doing it is a good sign--at least I think so. It's hard to remember to give people the benefit of the doubt when it feels like you're surrounded by a sea of the same brand of idiot.

I think it would help you to start trying to think in terms of People (as a spectrum) rather than just Men and Women--which we refer to as the gender binary. It can be difficult because we're socialized from an early age to think in terms of Boys and Girls when, really, gender varies way beyond that. Since you have feminist friends that could be an interesting topic for you to discuss with them as well.

Ah, thank you for the response. I will read the F.A.Q carefully, and I apologize if I have broken any of the rules here--it was not my intent.

I also agree with you, I do suppose it is important to stop thinking in terms of the gender binary (new term to me, thank you--I love learning new things).

I do discuss the issues with many of my friends who are feminists, but one thing they always get upset with me about is that I call women+ or, women who are far greater than the average woman. What is supposed to be a compliment is something that several find demeaning.

One of my friends in Canada often gives me a tongue lashing about how I only like her because "she's different than most women."

But to be fair, feminists ARE different than most women. I like people, male or female, who demand their respect and refuse to settle for unfair bias towards them.

I think one of the biggest problems that I have with the female gender is something that actually starts with men. From the time we are born, society paints a picture of what we should look like, how we should dress, and who we should be. Being that the majority of media is run by men, naturally, we end up in a society where many women punish themselves both physically and emotionally for not portraying themselves the way that the male dominated media makes them think they should.

And what is it that *I* do wrong? Often times I blame these women for being the way they are without looking at the bigger picture. And I admit to this flaw. I become angered at the individual for behaving in a way they were ingrained to since birth.

I think the key to having a better quality of both men and women is to stop the problem at the source. Namely, teaching young boys and girls to be themselves and not what our culture is telling them they have to be.

Often times, upon witnessing acts of incredible stupidity, I have to force myself to take a breath and say, "No! Do not blame her for acting like a character on "Jersey Shore" She is a young, impressionable--albeit misguided--woman whose behavior is less a result of her gender, and more the way society has fashioned her to be."

I must admit, it is not easy. But I want to be a better person. I always do.

[Wolfgirl]

Hi,

I'm a newbie but your impassioned portrayal of yourself inspired me to respond. First off, kudos on recognizing your own behaviour as negative. Most men just assume all women are the same and treat us accordingly. Secondly, you are not alone. Stupidity is very difficult to accept and it is in our nature to generalize. This tendency causes most of the "isms" of the world and is something to be guarded against. However, by being aware of it, you have taken the first step towards avoiding it.
Another way to help yourself deal with your concern would be to get acquainted with some of these girls on a more personal basis. I know its difficult to do. The reason I suggest this is because some girls think that they have to behave this way. They are actually intelligent women but they hide it away to make themselves appear more attractive. Talk to your female friends and see if they can suggest someone to you. It is heartbreaking that some women still think that men are more attracted to idiots then intelligent women. However, Hollywood does seem to make a valid argument for that being true.
I hope this helps. Always remember that the first step is knowing something is wrong.

[deanimal]

If someone truly can't tolerate stupidity, regardless of gender, then fine, bully for them. But many people who claim that seem to find stupidity more readily in women, either because there are traits that seem to indicate a lack of intelligence in women but are neutral in men (substandard articulation comes to mind), or because they inherently dislike femininity (consciously or unconsciously) and think that conventionally feminine traits indicate stupidity.

I know two women who are close friends. They're both EXTREMELY feminine. One of them is quite articulate and the other is less so. However, they're both complete math geniuses and smart in a variety of other subjects. Most people assume, however, that they are--especially the less articulate one--really stupid. Because they act "ditzy." But they're not stupid and it's not them pretending to be stupid either, they're both just authentically being themselves.

One kind of misogyny is hating women and thinking them inherently less, but I think an almost more insidious kind is to hate femininity and only allow women a chance who have decided to forgo it (which is, of course, also a completely valid existence).

It's kind of a chicken and egg scenario: do people think femininity indicates stupidity because it comes from women or do people think women are stupid cause they act all feminine? It doesn't really matter because they're both logical fallacies.

Also, side note from a linguist, saying 'like' every other word is absolutely not a measure of intelligence or lack thereof.

[rowan]

^ all of that.

[Parogar]

If someone truly can't tolerate stupidity, regardless of gender, then fine, bully for them. But many people who claim that seem to find stupidity more readily in women, either because there are traits that seem to indicate a lack of intelligence in women but are neutral in men (substandard articulation comes to mind), or because they inherently dislike femininity (consciously or unconsciously) and think that conventionally feminine traits indicate stupidity.

I know two women who are close friends. They're both EXTREMELY feminine. One of them is quite articulate and the other is less so. However, they're both complete math geniuses and smart in a variety of other subjects. Most people assume, however, that they are--especially the less articulate one--really stupid. Because they act "ditzy." But they're not stupid and it's not them pretending to be stupid either, they're both just authentically being themselves.

One kind of misogyny is hating women and thinking them inherently less, but I think an almost more insidious kind is to hate femininity and only allow women a chance who have decided to forgo it (which is, of course, also a completely valid existence).

It's kind of a chicken and egg scenario: do people think femininity indicates stupidity because it comes from women or do people think women are stupid cause they act all feminine? It doesn't really matter because they're both logical fallacies.

Also, side note from a linguist, saying 'like' every other word is absolutely not a measure of intelligence or lack thereof.

I don't hate femininity. I'm sorry if it came across that way in my opening post, although, I'm not quite sure why you thought I meant that.

If I may be so bold as to suggest it, having just read over my original posts, I don't really make the connection between "behaving in a feminine way" and stupidity, which makes me think that it's actually you using me to imply such things.

[Neko]

I don't think she was saying that YOU specifically have that view. She was describing different ways that a lot of people in general tend to judge feminine behavior.

[edit the sad parts]

Often times, upon witnessing acts of incredible stupidity, I have to force myself to take a breath and say, "No! Do not blame her for acting like a character on "Jersey Shore" She is a young, impressionable--albeit misguided--woman whose behavior is less a result of her gender, and more the way society has fashioned her to be."

This sounds incredibly condescending and classist.

[Parogar]

Often times, upon witnessing acts of incredible stupidity, I have to force myself to take a breath and say, "No! Do not blame her for acting like a character on "Jersey Shore" She is a young, impressionable--albeit misguided--woman whose behavior is less a result of her gender, and more the way society has fashioned her to be."

This sounds incredibly condescending and classist.

Not my intent. It's simply a behavior I abhor, and one that is not linked to anything inherently female or feminine, but rather a type of behavior constructed solely by society.

There's a nastiness to the people who act like that. Unless you've lived in Staten Island or New Jersey,you simply wouldn't understand my disgust. But in the interest of fairness, I am equally as disgusted at the men who act this way, it's truly gender neutral/