monk wrote:so what you're saying is that great girl wonder beat the pants off you?
Butterfly North wrote:I remember reading this bullshit article in the guardian by a feminist activist who I have noted for some time as having absolutely no critical reasoning skills whatsoever critiquing Twilight. I haven't read or watched anything from the series but it sounds pretty awful to me, not something I'd endorse giving to a teenage girl, but this article was lamenting that women seem to have certain types of attitude to relationships and drawing the conclusion that if you portray female characters as being more likely to have these attitudes then you are awful and your book is misogynistic.
Mars wrote: I'm a fan of science fiction, but because of Star Wars, it's probably reasonable to say that not many people ventured to make another sci-fi franchise because they would've be able to "be better" than Star Wars since it "did the sci-fi genre the best".
Sonic# wrote:If these opinions don't matter to you at all, then you are unfit for conversation
Rainbow Dolphins wrote:My viewpoint about this subject is a little skewed because most of the scifi I read is classic shit from the '50s and '60s and of course there are no rolemodels who are women in those. I think one good example of strong female characters in recent popular young adult literature is Lyra from the His Dark Materials series- and not just Lyra, but Mary Malone and Mrs. Coulter as well. Those are definitely books I would be happy to gift to any young relative.
Rainbow Dolphins wrote:Are you talking about FInal Fantasy X-2? Because that only had an all-female cast so they could show more tits and have lesbian scenes for the adolescent boys it was targeted at to drool over. And, even though there were no male playable characters, the entire plot was about a woman pining over a man.
I like His Dark Materials because it has male characters, too... I mean, Lyra has male mentors and female mentors, both. It doesn't make a point of being *about* women, the women are just naturally there. It represents both genders rather than centering on one or the other.
lillerina wrote:Harry Potter had the character of Hermione, who was fantastic except that she was constantly ridiculed by the POV character (her supposed best friend). Loaded words like "shrill" were used, and she was portrayed as a nagging busybody.
Mars wrote:I'm not trying to diss Harry Potter or say it's sexist, it just seems like the usual male hero and male mentor (Dumbledore) vs. male villain. It's very much a fantasy version of Star Wars, and do we even need to discuss Star Wars stance on the portrayl of women?
Actually I should've mentioned Star Wars in the first post. I'm a fan of science fiction, but because of Star Wars, it's probably reasonable to say that not many people ventured to make another sci-fi franchise because they would've be able to "be better" than Star Wars since it "did the sci-fi genre the best".
I was also a Metroid fan. Samus Aran was a great example of a strong female protagonist. Then "Other M" came out. :(
Sonic# wrote:The negative portrayals seem at many points to come from Harry's own point of view. He's a young boy going through school. He's going to have some issues that he's pretty good on (like social justice) and other issues (like his regard for women) that requires work throughout the series. I don't see that being too great of an issue.
monk wrote:Mars wrote: I'm a fan of science fiction, but because of Star Wars, it's probably reasonable to say that not many people ventured to make another sci-fi franchise because they would've be able to "be better" than Star Wars since it "did the sci-fi genre the best".
I think I could argue that the Alien series was successful and surpassed Star Wars in it's portrayal of women. And as far as rating the movies are concerned, while Empire Strikes Back might be at the top of my list, the Alien movies would come long before Episodes I-III.
Rainbow Dolphin wrote:I think there's also a big division when it comes to the age of the target audience. I feel like shows and books and movies targeted toward adult audiences (like Alien and BSG) have FAR more strong female characters than those targeted towards teens and young adults (like Star Wars and Harry Potter and Twilight). And really, it's more important for younger audiences to see that. I mean, I really like Harry Potter and I think Rowling did a good job of incorporating a lot of good, diverse female characters, but the fact is the hero and the mentor and the villian and the hero's chief social rival ARE all white men. I mean, she could have made ONE of those characters a woman. I feel like every female character in Harry Potter was there to fulfill her "woman quota"- one girl to have a feminine element in the main group of protagonists, one female teacher, one mother figure, one love interest for the hero. What I'm trying to say is it seems like all the characters started out as male as default and were only changed to female to serve some kind of purpose.
lykin005 wrote:Obviously, Mass effect has to be mentioned! Femshep is actually more badass than... Masshep? Anyway Jennifer Hale is just such a boss voice actor that unlike most other female characters in games I can HEAR the veteran soldier badassery in her voice! If by some stretch Jennifer see's this. Kudos! As for boys identifying with female leads. In my youth I did hold some fairly sexist ideas. (Mostly being overprotective and similar such things.) But I've always been cool with female characters who kick ass and or are strong and capable. I blame this on video games oddly enough. (Alongside power ranger's and anime.) I'm a big rpg player and sometimes you play as a women, sometimes a man. I think this combined with my solitary and self reflective life has led me to where I am and has influenced me to adopt feminism and adapt it into my own philosophy. So certainly some boys can identify with girls. (I myself have been strongly influenced by a totally awesome teacher who was with me for... 5 years probably.)
drunken dragon wrote:If we're talking about video games too, what do people think about Final Fantasy? Aren't there a fair number of female characters in those, as well? The only one I can remember is IX (9), which had Freya, the dragon named after the Norse (is it Norse?) goddess. Skyrim and Fable II and III very fem-friendly as well.
I'm begrudgingly reading The Hunger Games since there's a movie in the works. Honestly I simply wasn't drawn in initially because of the writing, but I guess I'll push through it, now.
Blood And Chocolate had at least two strong female characters. (I'm thinking of the book, not the movie.)
Ama wrote:Final Fantasy does have a number of female characters, and some of them are even strong, capable and more or less self reliant, which is bloody amazing given that final fantasy is a japanese series.
Ama wrote:I think that's a series that's gotten better about its portrayal of women as it went along, and is noteworthy for one of the games having an all female cast, and for several of the games not having set classes, so you could make your characters do whatever you wanted. On the other hand in nearly ever FF game with set classes, female characters are largely relegated to support classes such as healers, archers or mages, with only a few contrary examples. Also, in the game with an all female cast classes are apparently changed by changing their clothes mid-battle. So it's a pretty mixed bag.
Hufflepuff wrote:Are you talking the books or movies? 'cause I didn't see Harry constantly ridiculing Hermione in the books. I can't recall a single instance of what I'd call ridicule, actually. Harry was your typical lazy student who didn't care about school and never wanted to study, and Hermione was a teacher's pet, and so she was always trying to get him and Ron to be more studious, and they constantly complained about that, but Harry and Ron finding Hermione's enthusiasm for education exhausting hardly seems like ridicule. Not to mention it's realistic.
Though maybe you were referring to something else. Care to list any examples? You don't need exact quotes, I remember the books pretty well, I'll know what you're talking about.
Hufflepuff wrote:As a writer myself, this argument really gets my goat. "Ugh, too many white men. Why couldn't the author have made one black or female or something?"
Because for me, the answer is simple -- because the character isn't black or female or whatever. For me - and I know a lot of other writers besides me are this way - characters just come to me. I don't sit down and say, "okay, what kind of character should I make? What gender? What sexuality? What color? etc."
Hufflepuff wrote:Because if you just take a female character and give her a male gender role, that's not progressive, that's not feminist, that's no different than if it was a male character with a male gender role. To me, the thing is either subverting or utterly ignoring gender roles, not switching them.
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