Transwomen and Sports?

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Soldier

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Transwomen and Sports?

Postby Soldier » Fri Dec 2, 2:51 2016

In a perfect world sports would be gender neutral but in reality, that would exclude women from most competitive sports with a few exceptions such as auto racing, horse racing. Even in sports that you'd think there would be no male competitive advantage such as skiing, shooting sports, chess, billiards, and putting men still out perform women.

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This is Fallon Fox and transgender MMA fighter and in spite of having low testosterone she is still strong like a man and her larger hands also give her an advantage over Cis women fighters. A man in combat sports will never have to face that.

Critics are scrutinizing mixed martial arts (MMA) competitor Fallon Fox, after the transgender fighter gave her opponent a concussion and broke her eye socket.

Fox defeated her opponent, Tamikka Brents, by TKO at 2:17 of the first round of their match. Brent’s eye injury resulted in a damaged orbital bone that required seven staples.

In a post-fight interview this week, Brents told Whoa TV, “I’ve never felt so overpowered ever in my life.”

“I’ve fought a lot of women and have never felt the strength that I felt in a fight as I did that night. I can’t answer whether it’s because she was born a man or not, because I’m not a doctor,” she stated. “I can only say, I’ve never felt so overpowered ever in my life, and I am an abnormally strong female in my own right. ”

Fox’s “grip was different,” Brents added. “I could usually move around in the clinch against…females but couldn’t move at all in Fox’s clinch.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9XU4QOqVbQ

http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/trans ... -opponent/

It seems to me that M2F athletes would dominate women's sports. What do you think.

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garbage videos

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Re: Transwomen and Sports?

Postby garbage videos » Fri Dec 2, 19:43 2016

An individuals stance on Transgenders, in the context of sports, will usually depend on the importance of sports to the individual.

I myself, do not really care about sports, I view it as a futile activity on a dying planet, there are more important issues. And there are other more entertaining pasttimes, such as paintball and videogames.

Since the goal of sports is fun, I would say that adding transgenders to sports would increase the fun of the sports, because people love variety, and people enjoy seeing heroes leading the pack, transgenders would be great dominators.

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Re: Transwomen and Sports?

Postby Soldier » Fri Dec 2, 22:34 2016


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Re: Transwomen and Sports?

Postby rowan » Fri Dec 2, 22:51 2016

Trans women are women.

Trans men are men.

Full stop.

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Re: Transwomen and Sports?

Postby Sonic# » Sat Dec 3, 7:45 2016

^ Agreed.

The history of sex testing for the Olympics seems to show that verifying for sexes is terrifically flawed because both chromosomal testing and hormonal testing don't really test what we think gender is. They test the presence or absence of individual features that may give false positives. A woman may have a Y chromosome but be perceived as female all of her life due to being insensitive to her own androgyns. A woman may have a higher level of testosterone, but that doesn't make her not a woman. As for hormone (androgyn) testing, that's the current method employed by Olympic committees, but it's terribly flawed: someone can have a lot of androgyns and look like a woman. What they're really testing for is hormonal differences, but that doesn't make much sense since there's no evidence androgyns directly give a performance advantage to elite women in sports.

I bring all that up because once you say that trans women or trans men shouldn't be in the sports corresponding to their gender, you bring up the issue of verification. Basically, you're telling a sporting committee to determine a rule for gender that excludes trans people but somehow lets all cis people participate in their gender's sports. Whatever rule or rules you end up developing end up being the underlying criteria for participating in a sport rather than gender. Height, muscle mass, bone density, weight, hormones: once someone tries to define gender more precisely than mere social conventions, they create sports that are no longer dividing men and women.

I'd be theoretically okay with rules based purely on a physical parameter, like weight classes in boxing. However, I'm not okay with coming up with those rules exclusively to exclude trans women from women's sports. That seems analogous to gerrymandering, changing the boundaries of gender in order to benefit cis people and exclude trans people.

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Re: Transwomen and Sports?

Postby Pikachu » Sat Dec 3, 9:58 2016

Brent saw her frame and bulk beforehand. Brent saw the transwoman's one sided matches beforehand where she crushed all opposition.

MTF's usually have larger frames and larger frames allows for more muscle. Usually that doesnt matter as the transwoman's muscle is limited by her estrogen dominant hormone profile. But that limit no longer applies considering these fighters are all on steroids.

Brent saw all that and still decided to fight her in a "sport" that allows ground and pound.

It also goes to show how little ingenuity is involved in these matches. It's all the same old crap. Go for the take down ground and pound win. I much prefer boxing. Which brutal as it can be, it at least somewhat civilized. MMA is disgusting.

So don't whine now after you lost.

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Re: Transwomen and Sports?

Postby Ana » Sat Dec 3, 12:47 2016

If transwomen are in average stronger than the other women, then the competition doesn't seem to be fair. Perhaps they could have their own category. But in a competition in which a cis woman fights against a transwoman or even against a man, for argument's sake, perhaps some diferent rules could be created for each fighter, in order to balance the competition.

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Re: Transwomen and Sports?

Postby rowan » Sat Dec 3, 14:58 2016


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Re: Transwomen and Sports?

Postby Soldier » Sun Dec 4, 5:31 2016


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Re: Transwomen and Sports?

Postby Soldier » Sun Dec 4, 5:44 2016


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Re: Transwomen and Sports?

Postby Sonic# » Sun Dec 4, 8:49 2016


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Re: Transwomen and Sports?

Postby Pikachu » Sun Dec 4, 10:16 2016


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Re: Transwomen and Sports?

Postby Meperidine » Sun Dec 4, 11:08 2016

:heart: and :spacefem:

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Re: Transwomen and Sports?

Postby Storage and Disposal » Sun Dec 4, 11:21 2016

Yay! Been awhile since we had a picture thread.
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"He weeps for he has but one small tongue with which to taste an entire world." - Dr. Mungmung

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Re: Transwomen and Sports?

Postby Ana » Sun Dec 4, 16:25 2016


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Re: Transwomen and Sports?

Postby Meperidine » Sun Dec 4, 17:25 2016

Trans women weren't once men though.
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Re: Transwomen and Sports?

Postby Amuro » Sun Dec 4, 23:29 2016

No you can change your gender but you can't change your sex. So no I don't think somone born a male should be able to compete against someone born a female in competitive sports. If you mean inter-mural sports or just a quick pick up game of basketball or game of baseball between friends on the weekend well that's completely fine because it's just for fun on the weekend. But if you mean organized sports leagues no males are physically stronger than females even if you get the average small male he could still beat the shit out the average female.

I'll give you an easy example I used to work at a grocery store and there was small but young man who came into the store and people thought he was acting suspicious walking around and he had a backpack on. He's about to leave the store without buying anything and one of the managers demands to see his bag he basically ignores her and keeps on walking. She grabbed him he pulls away she grabs him again and he pulls then the third time she grabs him she wont let him go so does a one arm shoulder throw and the manager is on the ground. She was a good 5 inches taller than him and he threw around like it was nothing. (I will also add that security showed up and took him down but they didn't find anything on him)

So no if your born a male then you shouldn't be able to compete with females. This isn't about gender it's about biological sex which is something you can't change.

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Re: Transwomen and Sports?

Postby Soldier » Mon Dec 5, 5:02 2016


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Re: Transwomen and Sports?

Postby rowan » Mon Dec 5, 10:35 2016

Holy shit you are conflating some serious social conditioning into your "natural biology" argument. Eesh.

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Re: Transwomen and Sports?

Postby Meperidine » Mon Dec 5, 13:02 2016

You super can change your sex though.
Last edited by Meperidine on Mon Dec 5, 16:38 2016, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Transwomen and Sports?

Postby Sonic# » Mon Dec 5, 15:24 2016


Soldier

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Re: Transwomen and Sports?

Postby Soldier » Fri Dec 9, 3:06 2016


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Re: Transwomen and Sports?

Postby rowan » Fri Dec 9, 11:05 2016

Soldier seems really misinformed about trans* people.

Also: androgen levels do not indicate performance.

Even Soldier states: "Researchers hypothesize that men generally have faster reaction times than women due to differences in societal roles throughout human history. "

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Re: Transwomen and Sports?

Postby Sonic# » Fri Dec 9, 11:24 2016


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Re: Transwomen and Sports?

Postby Meperidine » Thu Dec 15, 13:48 2016

Stumbled on an about this.

Lots of relevant points in here, but of particular interest is the fact that a trans woman's hormone replacement therapy regimen--which the Olympic committee requires trans women athletes to have undergone for a year or more before they can compete as women--includes testosterone blockers that are so effective that trans women on HRT often have lower testosterone levels than cis women.
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