Promoting Gender Equality

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Graberl

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Promoting Gender Equality

Postby Graberl » Sat Jun 10, 12:38 2017

1. Is it possible to promote gender equality outside the gender you identify as?

2. If so, how do you personally promote gender equality outside the gender you identify as?

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lillerina
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Re: Promoting Gender Equality

Postby lillerina » Sat Jun 10, 14:34 2017

1. Yes.

2. Boost marginalised voices. Challenge stereotypes verbally when they are expressed. Support education that avoids gender essentialism. Seek equality in your own relationships, whether that is romantic, familial, professional or friendships. Use whatever power you have financially and socially. If you're in a position to hire people, insist on interviewing a cross section of genders. If 7 men's resumes are handed to you, notice this and ask where all the women's resumes are. If no women are applying to work at your company, figure out why and fix it. Talk to people of other genders than you. More importantly, listen to people of other genders than you. Remember that as humans we are all fundamentally both similar and unique, and these similarities and differences do not run along gender lines. Question authority. Question normality. Question your own comfort. Learn new skills. Expect others to do the same. Expect the world to be better. Expect your friends to be better. Expect yourself to be better. Be better.
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rowan
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Re: Promoting Gender Equality

Postby rowan » Sat Jun 10, 21:31 2017

Aw Lilly that's like the best list ever.

I'll add, in addition to finding other genders than you and listening to them, do a LOT of listening and don't put the burden of explaining things on them. Do your own actual research into dynamics, there's tons of stuff already out there to read. Super frustrating when people are having a complex conversation when someone barges in with 101-level questions and derails the conversation (or worse, for my co-workers sometimes, lower than 101 level).

There's a time and place for 101 level conversations (and we do have many here, which is fine), but it's not in derailing other conversations, and it's not in making marginalized people explain what you can find easily on your own.
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Skeezy

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Re: Promoting Gender Equality

Postby Skeezy » Tue Jun 13, 13:00 2017

1. Its much harder to promote gender equality tthan one would think. In the basis women and men by nature are built fundamentally different and it extends to many aspe ts of life so unifying the two into one is like trying to fit two pegs in one space.

2. I would like to see more gender equality to substantiate feminism such as, women wanting to be included in the draft, disbanding child support on non dead beat fathers, demanding jail time for false accusations in court, doing away with alimony, demanding they be required to do all labor that a job reuires including heavy lifting and things that strain the body, demanding equal pay across theboard in both scenarios where women are paid less in major corperations but paid more for less work in regular jobs.. I could go on, but to achieve true gender equality you have to go over pros and cons and would have to retract many of the female favoring laws and normalities that women fought to achieve.

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rowan
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Re: Promoting Gender Equality

Postby rowan » Tue Jun 13, 22:29 2017

1. Your understanding of biology is wrong, go find a textbook.

2. *yawn* feminism addresses most of this. Boring.
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Re: Promoting Gender Equality

Postby Pikachu » Mon Jun 19, 2:39 2017

Feminism doesn't address most of those. Feminism addresses those aspects where women are disadvantaged and seeks to improve conditions for women and only pays any attention to men and boys from the perspective of how it relates to helping women. The MRA addresses the aspects where men are disadvantaged simply for the sake of helping men and boys. Examples include circumcision, sentencing disparity, education disparity, etc. Saying "feminism addresses most of this" in a snarky tone is an attempt to crowd out other discourse and have feminism be the only, unchallenged voice on gender rights issues.

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Unvoiced_Apollo
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Re: Promoting Gender Equality

Postby Unvoiced_Apollo » Mon Jun 19, 4:25 2017

Pikachu wrote:Feminism doesn't address most of those. Feminism addresses those aspects where women are disadvantaged and seeks to improve conditions for women and only pays any attention to men and boys from the perspective of how it relates to helping women. The MRA addresses the aspects where men are disadvantaged simply for the sake of helping men and boys. Examples include circumcision, sentencing disparity, education disparity, etc. Saying "feminism addresses most of this" in a snarky tone is an attempt to crowd out other discourse and have feminism be the only, unchallenged voice on gender rights issues.


Actually, feminists argue that it's those very gender stereotypes as mentioned by lillerina is at the root of many MRA issues, including sentencing disparity.

Skeezy wrote:1. Its much harder to promote gender equality tthan one would think. In the basis women and men by nature are built fundamentally different and it extends to many aspe ts of life so unifying the two into one is like trying to fit two pegs in one space.

2. I would like to see more gender equality to substantiate feminism such as, women wanting to be included in the draft, disbanding child support on non dead beat fathers, demanding jail time for false accusations in court, doing away with alimony, demanding they be required to do all labor that a job reuires including heavy lifting and things that strain the body, demanding equal pay across theboard in both scenarios where women are paid less in major corperations but paid more for less work in regular jobs.. I could go on, but to achieve true gender equality you have to go over pros and cons and would have to retract many of the female favoring laws and normalities that women fought to achieve.


There are a couple of issues.

1. Some feminists want to be added to selective service (not the draft, but would put them on the list should the draft return). Some feminists want selective service to be outright abolished as we are an all volunteer army. Either would bring everyone under equal treatment with regard to this aspect of military.

2. I would like more statistics on this regarding the percentage of fathers who are legally required to pay child support over those who volunteer it as part of being a father in a child's life.

3. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. In other words, just because someone makes a rape accusation and then the accused is found not guilty or the case dismissed, this does not mean that the accuser reported falsely.

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Re: Promoting Gender Equality

Postby Skeezy » Wed Jun 21, 10:35 2017


3. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. In other words, just because someone makes a rape accusation and then the accused is found not guilty or the case dismissed, this does not mean that the accuser reported falsely.


This a touchy and neverending issue. I've personally known about 2 cases and read about others where the accuser flat out lied but it wasnt found out till after the defendant now victim had already served years of jail time. The most cases usually heard about are celebrities/atheletes and up and coming atheletes. I just think when its found out the accuser was lying beyond the shadow of doubt, there should be penalty and jailtime and in specific cases, reinbursement.

When a promising up and coming athelete is convicited of rape their future is changed. If it comes out the accusation was false especially in the scenarios where the atheletes planned future is ruined because of the accuser. There should be reinbursement of some sort. Child support style payments. Only in cases where the accusation was found to be a flat out lie. Jail time would be a must.

A balance has to be struck but you also dont want to deter actual rape victims. Truly false accusers need to be punished severly though. Its touchy.

An example I know of is, strictly from a friend who was accused and served his time. Mind you, this is from his mouth. The accused was in his mid to late 20's (now mid 30's) is african american and honestly not the brightest bulb and has an alcohol problem. He met a caucasian girl on the internet, he says she lied about her age and invited him over. She was of age of consent but mind you he is in his late 20's (stupid). Her parents found about him and she in turn.switched her story to rape which of course the parents pursued conviction.

Now he could be lying, hes definitly stupid for having sex with such a young girl. However if it can be proved he was telling the truth....actually negate this example hes an idiot even if he is telling the truth

What makes me believe him, is that she invited him over to the house. Hes not an agressive man and never has been, a simpleton really. I cant stress that enough. I just dont see him pinning down any woman and raping her. He usually dates extremely large women who run over him somewhat like Cole from the TV show "Martin". As a matter of fact he was cheating when this happened.
Its hearsay on both sides but I believe him, he was stupid enough for this to happen .

Taurwen
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Re: Promoting Gender Equality

Postby Taurwen » Wed Jun 21, 11:53 2017

You're example is an example of how difficult it would be to prove someone is lying.

I agree false accusations are terrible, and it'd be cool if there was a way to persecute, but I'm willing to bet a lot of money that there are more unreported rapes than false accusations, and if that's the current state persecuting for false accusations would make it so very few people would come forward.
Ontop of that we already have rape cases that end with "he totally did it, but we don't want to ruin his future so we're going to give him a slap on the wrist and pretend it never happened"

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Re: Promoting Gender Equality

Postby Nachos » Sat Jun 24, 11:51 2017

Skeezy wrote:When a promising up and coming athelete is convicited of rape their future is changed.


When someone is raped their future is also changed.
Ugh, I'm tired of my signature.

Skeezy

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Re: Promoting Gender Equality

Postby Skeezy » Sun Jun 25, 20:25 2017

True. 8+ years of previous life stripping time, loss of financial prospects and ambitions due to a false claim should be swept under the rug entirely.

Not to mention being treated as an animal in a zoo, surrounded by hazards, funk, humiliation,and crookedness

Its hard to prove someone is lying. If the evidence proves beyond a shadow of a doubt the claim was false, we just let him out fof jail and overturn the guilty. No biggie.
Stopping here.

Im not trying to downplay rape victims, Im just saying they are not the only victims in some cases.

Such things should be taken into account when thinking of gender equality. Just to make sure there isn't selective focus geared for one gender rather than both.
Ok really stopping now.

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Enigma
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Re: Promoting Gender Equality

Postby Enigma » Mon Jun 26, 15:23 2017

Studies have shown that false accusations in rape cases are similar to other crimes. Your anecdotes don't change the overall stats. Being falsely accused of any crime would suck definitely, but your focus on false rape claims over concern over false robbery claims or whatever is a bit suspect.
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