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Abused friend -- what are my rights?

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Abused friend -- what are my rights?

Postby Hufflepuff » Thu Mar 24, 6:39 2011

This topic might be triggering, so tread accordingly.

I have a friend. She's a year older than me, but somehow, I've always felt like the older one. Though that's probably because despite my young age, I act like a full-on adult. She's the normal one, all things considered.

When she was a child, she was sexually abused. Not once, it was continual, over a period of time. I dunno if anyone here has any experience with anything like that, but basically, there's no "getting over" it; it's something you have to deal with for the rest of your life, and she's never dealt with it very well. In her twenty five years, she's attempted suicide five times. Not cries for help, but sincere attempts, two of which landed her in the hospital for several weeks each. She has absolutely no self-esteem; she sometimes laments that she isn't attractive at all, or that she's really dumb, neither of which are remotely true.

Here's the thing, though. Despite her abuse and low self-esteem, she's had more romantic and sexual partners than even me, and I consider myself something of a playboy. The problem is, she's attracted to domineering, controlling, physically powerful men who end up abusing her. Always emotionally - putting her down and telling her she's fat and ugly and worthless - but sometimes physically as well. Two of her suicide attempts were while dating a physically abusing boyfriend she felt she couldn't get away from.

The problem is all the more insidious because she never realizes she's being abused until it turns physical. She has such an unhealthy, fractured scheme in her mind of what a relationship is like that even as they make her feel terrible about herself, she doesn't think of the put-downs and emotional abuse and severe control as unusual or problematic. It's only when it turns physical that she realizes something's wrong.

Nor can my or anyone else's words convince her before it's too late. Every guy she's dated, whether it was for three weeks or three years, she's proclaimed to be absolutely head-over-heels in love with, and no matter how badly they treat her, she refuses to hear an unkind word against them, refuses to listen to us when we tell her she doesn't have to put up with the denigration and name-calling and domination, that that's not normal and even if it was, she has the right to dictate the terms of her own relationships.

I'm torn. On the one hand, from my third-person perspective, I can always see when her boyfriends are treating her like crap, when trouble looms on the horizon, and she clearly can't -- in fact, she denies it. As such, I want to try to convince her that she can and should find someone who treats her decently, like a fellow human being, not like a personal posession. But on the other hand, because she's so adamant that there's nothing wrong (until the physical abuse starts), I feel bad about berating her to dump the loser she's with and find someone else. I mean, I'm trying to convince her that she has the right to be happy, but at the same time, I'm kinda telling her what to do and how to live her life. Maybe she is truly, madly, head-over-heels in love with these assholes she dates; I would never presume to know her thoughts and feelings better than her. But she just seems so miserably unhappy, even as she denies it.

I don't know how adamant I myself should be in convincing her that those losers she dates aren't worth her affection. And here's why -- and this is tricky and you may even wag your finger at me, so bear with me.

See...one of the first women I was ever seriously involved with developed a drinking problem while we were dating because her father died, and they were really close, not to mention that her mother was never a part of her life; he raised her on his own. I said I was a playboy, and I chose that word instead of lecher or some such for a reason; I don't not care about the women I'm with. On the contrary; I have love enough for many, which is why I can't stay with any one woman too long. But I've honestly and deeply cared about each and every woman I've ever been with. I really did love her.

Anyway, sometimes, when she'd get drunk, she'd get violent. And I simply accepted it. I never put up any resistance, I never tried to stop her, I let her do what she had to. Nor did I leave her. Obviously, I didn't like getting the crap kicked out of me, but my love for her was greater than my instinct for personal safety. I was willing to accept this part of our relationship, unpleasant as it was, because I loved her so much. And if you would have told me, at the time, that you thought I should dump her, I'd've told you to mind your own fucking business and let me make my own choices in life.

So from personal experience, I can intimately understand the idea of loving someone who hurts you. I know that sounds absolutely terrible. I won't try to justify myself, but neither do I feel I was wrong. I wouldn't call it right, exactly. It was a choice. That's all. A choice. It was my choice. Self-direction, choosing one's own path; these things are truly valuable.

So this is why I'm so torn. Who am I to tell my friend she should dump her abusive boyfriend, when she claims to love him? Maybe she does. And either way, it's her choice, not mine. Yet at the very same time, in my human heart, from my irrational emotions, I hate seeing her with these assholes who treat her so foully, and want her to dump them. Certainly to dump the douche she's dating at the moment.

How do I reconcile my desire to see my friend in a non-abusive, happy relationship with her adamancy that she loves her boyfriend and wants to be with him? Even given her past and her pattern of relationships, what right do I have to tell her that her judgement isn't as good as mine and I can see things that she can't? And, considering my own experience with abuse, what right do I even have to tell her that she's wrong to be in an abusive relationship? As terrible as that sounds, like I said, I highly value self-direction. What right do I have to tell my friend to change?
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Re: Abused friend -- what are my rights?

Postby Storage and Disposal » Thu Mar 24, 6:53 2011

I don't think you have any right to tell your friend to change, but you do have the right to say it like you see it. I would be as open as possible and if you jeopardize your friendship, then so be it. She needs help. I think the problem has less to do with the assholes emotionally and physically abusing her (but this is still a big problem) and more to do with the underlying problem you've pointed out. Her self destructive tendencies sound exceptionally serious. It sounds like she needs professional help.

I've known a girl like this. No amount of advice was enough in my situation.
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Re: Abused friend -- what are my rights?

Postby Sonic# » Thu Mar 24, 8:44 2011

I don't think you have any right to tell your friend to change, but you do have the right to say it like you see it.


That's a hard distinction to walk, but I agree. Since she's not directly physically harming yourself, you can't directly step in or make decisions for her. She's got to work it out herself, and you need to be one of the several voices telling her that this isn't right, without judging her.

Of course, saying that she should get some professional help isn't easy either. There's no guarantee that she has the resources for a regular therapist. We also don't really have the mental equivalent of a check-up, or at least not one that's as popularized. And doctors will be likely, due to costs, to want to just throw pills at the problem. Nonetheless, try to keep the communication channels open so that, when she realizes she needs help, she can have help finding it.
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Re: Abused friend -- what are my rights?

Postby Dr. What » Thu Mar 24, 10:02 2011

You have a right to tell her things as a friend, though you seem closer than just two friends, and if that is the case, then you have a little more ground to tell her your feelings about it.
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Re: Abused friend -- what are my rights?

Postby monk » Thu Mar 24, 14:03 2011

*puts armchair psychologist hat on*


okay, your friend is a textbook example of someone who suffered child abuse. All her instincts about what constitutes good dating material are fucked up and those people who are prone to abuse others can see her from far away like she's wearing a sign. So one of several things is going to happen. She will succeed at suicide, she will continue the series of semi short live abusive relationships or something or someone will intervene somehow and get her into therapy. Therapy will help her deal with her past and help her recognize the poor choices she's currently making. That's the deal. You can help her get to therapy maybe by setting up an intervention between her and all the people she knows who have her best interests at heart. If you care about her enough, that's what you have to do. If you don't then I recommend cutting yourself out of her life because in her current state she will eventually destroy the relationship you have with her and since she dates violent people you may get caught up in that.

As for you, everyones' got kinks, if you've never suffered abuse yourself there's the possibility that you're just wired to like a little pain now and then. Masochism isn't a crime, there's a whole subculture based on it. But the pain and violence needs to be expected and controlled. Random violence from someone is unacceptable and if truly love this person you will either get them help or learn how to help them yourself other that by being a target. Putting up with their abuse doesn't make you hero, it just makes you an enabler of their sickness.
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Re: Abused friend -- what are my rights?

Postby Hufflepuff » Fri Mar 25, 7:12 2011

Thanks for the replies so far, everyone.

Indeed, my own feeling is that I don't have a right to step in, that my rights only extend so far as doggedly expressing my opinion. It's so hard, though, to see her so miserable and self-loathing, and knowing the cause, and telling her as much, but watching her refute it and deny it and withdrawl deeper into self-destruction. I won't deny that there's a primal part of me that just wants to take and thrash her loser boyfriend, but it's not my right.

The problem with trying to get her professional help is that she doesn't believe she has a problem. When the abuse turns physical, she does dump the guy, but in a few weeks she'll be in the arms of another douchebag and it'll start all over again. And all the while, she professes her love for them.

Storage, what happened to that girl you mentioned?

Dr. What, I take friendship seriously. If you and me could hang out and have fun, but couldn't have a serious discussion, I'd never call you a friend. So yeah, we are pretty close. It's strange (or really, not strange at all); she's pretty much the only female friend I've ever had. I don't mean most of my friends are male, I mean most of my female acquaintences are either purely acquaintences (people I know at work or from class) or girlfriends. Before her, I'd never really been close to a woman without having romantic feelings for her. Well, except for my older sister, but that's for a completely different reason, heh.

At times I've found myself questioning and doubting and criticizing myself; am I really the playboy I think I am, or am I just a slut? I've always wanted a female friend without any romantic feelings involved, and now I have one in her. I suppose that's a big part of the reason I'm so torn up over this -- she's not just a friend, she's important; I'm not gonna cut her out of my life just because it's painful for me to watch her suffer, but at the same time, I am going through so much heartache over her, and I almost can't see it getting any better.

I'm not a masochist, though, monk. Like I said, in that relationship (which I'm not sure if I made it clear was a past relationship; I'm not still with her), I didn't enjoy her drunken violence, but nor was I inclined to end the relationship because of it. I never looked at my passive acceptance of her abuse as enabling, though. It was just the booze -- she wasn't like that when she was sober, not by a long shot. And she was never a boozehound, either -- it only started 'cause her dad died. What I did was focus on trying to get her to stop drinking (the root of the problem), rather than berating her for taking a swing at me (a surface symptom).

Which did eventually work. Probably. She stopped drinking eventually, at any rate - though I can't say how much was my doing - and we were still together for another three or four months after that. We eventually went our separate ways, though. We were both "love and leave" types, not inclined to linger.
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Re: Abused friend -- what are my rights?

Postby monk » Fri Mar 25, 9:21 2011

Hufflepuff wrote:Indeed, my own feeling is that I don't have a right to step in, that my rights only extend so far as doggedly expressing my opinion.


I acknowledge how you feel and it is your right. But let me ask you a few questions.

If you saw a house on fire would you call the fire department?

If you saw a person get hit by a car and get left on the side of the road, would you call an ambulance?

If you broke your leg would you want someone to help you?

Now, if you could prevent the house from burning, would you?

If you could shout a warning to the pedestrian, would you?

Would you want someone to prevent your leg from breaking?

Your friend may be in denial, your friend is also ill. Are you going to wait till she finds an asshole brutal enough to kill her? The intervention I mentioned is one of the keys here, if you feel this way about her, there are likely other who also do. If you care for her welfare then why aren't you helping her? Also, if you talk to her other friends and acquaintances and they disagree that she needs help then you can say at least that you tried to do something. Your friend has an emotional broken leg, and is lying on the side of the road, you were too late to prevent it, are you going to wait till her house burns down?
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Re: Abused friend -- what are my rights?

Postby Storage and Disposal » Fri Mar 25, 10:37 2011

She went through phases, trying to live for something. First it was military, which was shortly lived. Then it was having a kid. She wanted this fairy tale in which she was saved by some hero, so she told me all these horror stories about this guy she started to date, and I'm sure she did the same for him because he hated (hates) me and I don't even really know the guy. Long story short, she tricked me into having unprotected sex (I don't put full blame on her, but she was pretty tricky about it). I talked her into getting the morning after pill, which she fought me on the whole time, trying to convince me that she was already pregnant with the other guy's baby, but it that weren't true and she had mine, it would be out of love. She took one out of the two pills and I thoroughly tried to convince her that we (she especially) were not ready. To which she finally admitted:

"I want a baby and I don't care who the father is!"

I walked away and she crapped out a couple of kids with the other guy. It's been years and she's only tried to get me involved with her a couple of times shortly after that point, still trying to be saved from whatever life she's picked out for herself. I cared a lot for her, so I still check in from time to time by looking her up on facebook and reading a note or comment. She's not parading her despair anymore, so I guess it worked.

I guess her situation was different in that I think half of the reason she tried to kill herself was to be saved by someone, but she had a history of sexual and physical abuse from her father. Her mother died at some point, probably right before she hit her teens, and I think it must have been too much for her mind to take. I'm honestly not sure if she realized what she was doing when she was manipulating me and other guys or if she just did it. Anyway, it seems she lives for her kids now and I guess that's probably for the best, though at first her kid was taken away and she and the guy she tried to get me to hate were living in a tent for awhile. She was taking a bunch of therapy when I was with her and in and out of institutions before I was with her, neither of which helped (I'm not sure if she really wanted to get better or if she was just beyond help). Considering that, this outcome is probably the best that she could have gotten.

Wow, did not realize that rant would go on for so long. But yeah, that's what happened.
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Re: Abused friend -- what are my rights?

Postby Hufflepuff » Sat Mar 26, 5:17 2011

It's a tricky thing, monk. I have a retorting series of questions for you.

If your schizophrenic baby sister won't take her meds because she says they make her feel dead inside, but when she's off the meds she acts dangerously and could land in prison or worse, do you hold her down and force her to take them, even as she curses and says she hates you and she'll never forgive you?

If a man has chosen to commit suicide and won't be persuaded, do you physically grapple with him to stop him from pulling the trigger?

If you walk into an S&M orgy and there's blood everywhere and people are bruised and bashed up, do you call the cops or try to disband them?

The thing I'm grappling with is "how far can I go?" I've told my friend what I think of her boyfriends and relationship tendencies and that I think she needs professional help, the thing of it is, it's not as easy as having a sitcom very-special-episode-style intervention and having her break down, accept that we're right and she's wrong, and go off to get better. She denies that she has a problem. Would it be right of me to forcibly drag her into a therapists' office and lock the door behind her?

Further complicating matters is that I'm essentially her only close friend. She's got a handful of girlfriends and a few male friends, pretty much all from high school, but they're hanging-out friends, not have-serious-discussions friends, not donate-organs-in-the-case-of-illness friends. I'm deathly afraid of surgery, but if she needed a kidney, I'd eagerly hop on the chopping block. I don't think anyone else would do that for her. Most of them do agree with me, however, that she's got a problem, and I'm not the only one who's talked to her, but she just shrugs us off; we're exaggerating, we don't know what she knows, it's harder for us than it is for her, etc.

I am trying to help her...but I feel like I've exhausted every avenue short of physically forcing her into therapy. I talk to her, I've gotten others to talk to her, I've even taken a few of her boyfriends aside and talked to them. Needless to say, that was a mistake.

That's pretty intense, Storage. I think that wanting to throw herself at something is what my friend's doing, too. Instead of the military or motherhood, however, she desperately, desperately wants to feel loved and wanted, in a romantic and sexual context. That's part of the reason I think she defends her emotionally abusive boyfriends -- she'd rather be with someone who calls her fat and ugly and stupid than be alone.

Hmm, maybe that's something. Maybe, when she inevitably breaks up with her current boyfriend, I can try to set her up with someone. Like I said, she dates a very specific "type" of guy, but I wonder if she even realizes she's doing it. Maybe she gravitates towards guys like that not because that's all she's attracted to, but because that's all she knows. Maybe I could set her up with someone decent, and maybe - just maybe - they'd start dating and he'd treat her right and she'd realize for herself what she's been doing all these years. Maybe all she needs is to be in one healthy realtionship to break her twisted paradigm of how relationships work.
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Re: Abused friend -- what are my rights?

Postby monk » Sat Mar 26, 14:40 2011

Hufflepuff wrote:It's a tricky thing, monk. I have a retorting series of questions for you.

If your schizophrenic baby sister won't take her meds because she says they make her feel dead inside, but when she's off the meds she acts dangerously and could land in prison or worse, do you hold her down and force her to take them, even as she curses and says she hates you and she'll never forgive you?
If she won't take her meds and I and her family have have confronted her about the issue and she still refuses, then you give her a choice, take the meds or not be a part of your life. Your childrens and families safety is paramount, if she doesn't care enough about their safety to take her meds she can't associated with you anymore, if it was your own kid, then I suggest you have them committed until they change their mind or become 18.

If a man has chosen to commit suicide and won't be persuaded, do you physically grapple with him to stop him from pulling the trigger?
No, he has no right to threaten your life, you keep your distance, talk to him and call for assistance. there are professionals who deal with this situation.

If you walk into an S&M orgy and there's blood everywhere and people are bruised and bashed up, do you call the cops or try to disband them?
If they're sober, consenting and over 18, I would recommend they use condoms and safe words and wish them success in what they're seeking.


You're being a safety net for her is not helping though. She knows that if her relationships get out of control she can call you to rescue her. I guess I need to be more specific about what an intervention is. The group of friends, relatives or whomever that confronts her all give her an ultimatum. Get help or be cut out of your life. You don't give her a choice, you will either see her in therapy or never see her again. This is right because either you see her get the help she needs or you move on and have relationships with healthy people who aren't self destructive. This is important, because those self destructive people do several things besides hurting themselves, they set a bad example to the other people you know and their destructive practices damage other relationships you're in also.
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Re: Abused friend -- what are my rights?

Postby Hufflepuff » Mon Mar 28, 7:12 2011

I intended those questions rhetorically. What I meant was, there aren't any simple answers. It's not as simple as deciding to have an intervention for my friend, and that magically makes everything better because it was the right thing to do.

I don't know from psychology, but "do what we say or get the hell out of our lives" doesn't sound like something the APA would endorse. And even if it was, it'd still seem horrible to me. I'm not going to threaten to cut her out of my life just because she's not perfect. Foremostly, it's her life, not mine; it's not my right to tell her what to do. Yes, I'm worried about her and it does break my heart that she throws herself at loser after loser, but it's not like that defines the entirety of our relationship. We hang out, eat together, go places, do stuff.

And I care about her. "Clean up your act or you're out of my life" just seems heartless. Colder than I'm capable of, at any rate.

As I said, I take friendship very seriously. For the few whom I count among my friends, I'd die, I'd suffer, I'd do anything. Now, I realize that my suffering isn't helping my friend at all, but neither would cutting her out of my life be. Plus, relationships are two-way -- I don't want to cut her out of my life. My wants are a legitimate concern, as well.
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Re: Abused friend -- what are my rights?

Postby monk » Mon Mar 28, 9:38 2011

The APA endorses getting help to those who need it. Your friend needs it yet your unwilling to take steps that allow her to get treatment and let her continue on a path that not only does nothing for her emotional issues but puts her in real physical life ending danger. and yet you think getting this to stop is too much for you to do. Ask yourself what is more important, she hating you for getting her into therapy but being a healthy person, or her liking you as a friend when you visit her in the hospital because her latest boyfriend put her there?

As for threatening to cut her out of your life. The idea of this threat is hoping that she will choose therapy instead of being cut out. Which is a win and you're not doing it because she's not perfect, you're doing it because you don't want her damaged relationships to be around you or those you care about, including her. What if her next boyfriend kicks your ass too? Say you find the right girl yourself and settle down, have a kid, do you want this kind of abuse around your kids? I am guessing you're pretty young and your peers don't have families of their own yet so this isn't an issue for you, but it will be someday.
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Re: Abused friend -- what are my rights?

Postby lizpoona » Mon Mar 28, 10:59 2011

I agree with Hufflepuff; I don't think even the threat of cutting her out of his life is a good idea. Beyond that I have no solid advice- get to go on a trip to China and hang out with monks, go hiking in France, join a swim team. Ok, so those are all super expensive, but I think you get my point. Inspire her to get out of her own head, and away from her boyfriend. Convince her as well as you can that life is beautiful, and life is so much more than just waiting on the right guy to show up. She grew up being convinced that romance is the answer and that romance, one form of love, can reverse the abuse she experienced as a child- what she was never taught is that romance doesn't fix anything; Hollywood lies. What is going to heal her on the inside is her discovering who she is as an individual, a whole person, not needing some other "half."

She absolutely does not need a new boyfriend. She doesn't need a new guy, a decent guy, or the "one." She needs her self. She hates herself because she's never been able to take a step back and just really be... without people, without boyfriends, without the men in her life taking advantage of her and telling her she's worthless. She's continually had her life and her privacy invaded, and when you grow up having your autonomy rejected and your privacy superseded, you don't get a chance to just be yourself. You can't be happy alone because being alone means that somebody might come in against your will and hurt you. So you have to protect yourself by being with someone. being alone is scary, but not being alone means that even if it's crowded and stuffy, you're protected from the things that haunt you.

She was violated, and that is not okay. Now she's trying to escape from the violation by actively shoving what she sees as a better version in its place. Whatever it was that convinced her that the romantic love of a man can somehow make her better or heal her, i don't know. Hollywood, maybe. Maybe it was just plain ol' attraction coupled with emotional need. whatever it is, she's stuck with the idea that she needs a relationship. What she hasn't been able to realize is that nobody is going to take that pain away from her, and nobody is going to protect her from her past. She has to learn that being alone is not going to ruin her. She's got to face the void.

I say all this with the disclaimer that I'm probably totally wrong- I haven't been sexually abused. I've been emotionally abused, but that's it. I'm probably wrong for saying what i think people should comes to term with when I haven't experienced the same thing myself, but I suspect I'm right in that people have to learn to live with themselves. That's just the bottom line. you have to recognize that you are a legitimate human being, and that other human beings can only help and guide you, they can't be your saving grace when it comes to the pain you feel inside you and the thoughts that constantly berate. Family, friends, and even boyfriends can be wonderful people who treat you well and do things that make you happy. We are social creatures, we're always going to seek the company and aid of others... but at the end of the day, you just have to know how to work through your pain and realize that you are an individual person. you are not a broken toy or one half of a person. This girl needs to find peace with herself before she can be in a healthy relationship. Maybe not 100% peace- everyone is going to have days where they just hate themselves, where the world just seems shitty, and people just seem annoying. But some degree of peace is needed before she can find peace with a boyfriend.

And you know? all you can do is just keep trying to get her to live life to fullest, she's going to have to figure herself out on her own. Stick with her, she needs a friend like you.
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Re: Abused friend -- what are my rights?

Postby Mordak » Mon Mar 28, 23:09 2011

Your friend sounds a bit like me. Just stick around, be her friend, listen to her and relate with her. It's hard to live like she does and she needs someones emotional support at least.
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Re: Abused friend -- what are my rights?

Postby Rainbow Dolphins » Tue Mar 29, 7:58 2011

monk wrote:As for threatening to cut her out of your life. The idea of this threat is hoping that she will choose therapy instead of being cut out. Which is a win and you're not doing it because she's not perfect, you're doing it because you don't want her damaged relationships to be around you or those you care about, including her. What if her next boyfriend kicks your ass too? Say you find the right girl yourself and settle down, have a kid, do you want this kind of abuse around your kids? I am guessing you're pretty young and your peers don't have families of their own yet so this isn't an issue for you, but it will be someday.

OK- what if she says no, I don't have a problem, and I don't need friends like these so you can all go fuck yourselves? And then she is alone and mentally unstable and maybe she hurts herself, and you don't have to wait for her boyfriend to land her in the hospital, because she doesn't have any support and she broke down and did it herself.

Honestly, hufflepuff, I don't think there's a hell of a lot more you CAN do. You can't force someone to fix themselves. She has to choose to get better and then get herself help. All you can do is try and convince her she has a problem.
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Re: Abused friend -- what are my rights?

Postby monk » Fri Apr 1, 10:07 2011

Well, if you get confronted by all your friends and loved ones at one time in one place who have come together specifically to tell you about your problem and you still adamantly refuse to admit you have one, you're being just a bit obtuse don't you think? Interventions are used for drug addicts and alcoholics because their behavior is unacceptable and a danger to themselves and others, I don't see this situation as being that much different.
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Re: Abused friend -- what are my rights?

Postby Rainbow Dolphins » Fri Apr 1, 19:25 2011

monk wrote:Well, if you get confronted by all your friends and loved ones at one time in one place who have come together specifically to tell you about your problem and you still adamantly refuse to admit you have one, you're being just a bit obtuse don't you think?

Well, yeah. That doesn't mean people don't DO it.
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Re: Abused friend -- what are my rights?

Postby Hufflepuff » Sat Apr 2, 10:51 2011

I understand what you're saying, monk, and I appreciate your viewpoint, but you speak as if your suggested course of action (the "get help or get the hell out of my life" intervention) is the only right course of action, and anything else is wrong. I'm asking for opinions and thoughts, not moral absolutism.

And I do understand the point of threatening to cut her out, but that's just treating her like a misbehaving child. "Clean up your room or no dessert!" In any case, it would be an idle threat (and therefore useless) because I don't intend to cut her out of my life. And I know this is going to sound macho, but no boyfriend she could ever possibly have could beat me up. And if one of her boyfriends threatened someone else, well duh! I could just call the cops. It's not as if violence precipitates with impugnity -- her boyfriends can treat her foully because she lets them. If one of those assholes so much as makes a threat against anyone else, you can bet your ass I'll be the first one on the phone to the cops.

And whether she'd be obtuse to ignore a gigantic intervention is completely immaterial. Plus, maybe she is obtuse. Would that make her worthless as a person?

Good post, lizpoona. To clarify, I only suggested hooking her up with someone to show her a different relationship paradigm, not to fix what ails her. I agree that ultimately, a person needs to be happy with themself, to be happy and whole alone, not to be looking for "the missing piece," as it goes. You know, next semester I'm starting my graduate work in Paraguay. For all intents and purposes, we'll be in the middle of nowhere, surrounded mostly by people who don't speak the same language we do. Maybe I should invite her along, use up those two weeks vacation. It wouldn't be much, but perhaps even just that small bit of time away from everything, alone, would do her some good.

Rainbow Dolphins, I think that's a good way to look at it -- rather than me trying to "help" or "fix" her, I should focus on trying to get her to recognize she has a problem. From there, it's up to her what to do.
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Re: Abused friend -- what are my rights?

Postby monk » Sun Apr 3, 10:09 2011

for me things like that are pretty black and white.

and I said what I did because later on, when she succeeds in killing herself or finds a boyfriend to do it, you won't need to ask yourself "what could I have done?". You'll know.
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Re: Abused friend -- what are my rights?

Postby Storage and Disposal » Mon Apr 4, 12:46 2011

monk wrote:for me things like that are pretty black and white.

and I said what I did because later on, when she succeeds in killing herself or finds a boyfriend to do it, you won't need to ask yourself "what could I have done?". You'll know.

That is, of course, assuming her abandonment wasn't that last push.
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