Do opposites attract?

[rowan]

You don't have to let go of the desire for love completely, just don't obsess on it. *shrug*

I think a cultural thing re: money can be tricky. If you're in the US, then yes I think that culturally living with your parents and not having any money can make things harder. But, since you don't seem to want to go out and get a job, that's what you're going to have to work with. (presumably if you had money then you could be a dilettante and not worry about not having a job)

This isn't because you can't find things to do for free. You totally can; walks in the park are a good suggestion, in some locations there are free days at various museums or low-income passes or at least here you can check out a day pass from the library, etc. And it's not because a woman needs you to support her financially, either. However, without a job, you are making her be the sole breadwinner, and that can be difficult, especially if the places you're looking for love are the clerk at the local thrift store.

Add on top of that the very specific ideas you have about what "your love" will wind up being and you've basically boxed yourself in. Unless you think you can find someone who'd be cool living with your parents, which I suppose is also possible, and be interested in you and be willing to provide all the money for going out and doing things. I just feel like you're setting yourself up with some unrealistic expectations. None of these things individually is a problem, but all of them taken together reduce (though don't eliminate) the chances of finding someone.

So again, I will ask: why don't you want to get a job? Many, many people get jobs they don't particularly enjoy, simply so that they can live the life they want to live.

(unrelated: you should totally figure out how to get superpowers.)

[lykin005]

What exactly is so specific and unrealistic about my vision of a romantic relationship? I don't want a job because stress, responsibility, and spending time at work are things I really don't want! I don't deal well with stress and responsibility is part of that. Having people rely on me to achieve things is scary and not at all fun. As I said before I don't want to spend 8 hours a day (the majority of my day.) doing something I really don't like doing. I also loathe the idea that I would have to say to one of my friends "No I cant come to your performance today I have to work." It's kinda about freedom. If I'm chained to a job I am stuck in one place. I'm leashed. No thank you! I wan't a woman who has a similar attitude. (if not entirely the same.) Now I understand money is needed to do a lot of things including survive which is why I intend on living life as frugally as possible. (Aldi and goodwill are the shit!) As for life, with the exception of love, superpowers, and a self sufficient existence and a few other small things. I am living the life I want to live. I expect from people only what I'm willing to give.

As for figuring out superpowers. Here you go! http://youtu.be/fYxCrugJj_o

[Aum]

I have been realizing more and more lately that you can't actively "find" love. I've deleted all my online dating profiles because the endless string of dates is not the method to get it to work out. Instead, I am focusing on myself and my career, while still putting myself out there and being social. Love is something you invite into your life from all areas, and that you decide to give to others. Practice loving compassion with everyone you meet and treat people well. Even though you don't have a partner, be open to receiving love from your friends and family. It's this openness to receiving that opens the channels to someone new to come into your life.

Think about your most ideal relationship as your dream. That feeling of love and warmth you get when you think about it - that comes from you. It's the love that you already are. If you nurture this as well as the fondness for others in your life, love will begin to permeate everything. That's when you attract a loving partner, when your level of love matches theirs, and not because you need them to fill a void for you. But you can't be scheming... if you try to practice love because your agenda is to get a partner, that's not unconditional love. You have to love without attachment to an idea.

As for work... the advice I always give people is to not separate "work" from "the rest of my life". Work is your life, so ask yourself what kind of lifestyle you want to live. Make employment part of that. Instead of focusing on the specific form (i.e. customer service), focus on the qualities the job should have (i.e. part-time, friendly co-workers, sociable, communicative, working with others, etc.). It will make it easier to recognize the kind of work you want to do when it shows up, and by focusing on qualities you are more likely to attract what you want.

I find that with a lot of life's decision making, it's better to focus on qualities and not form. And for finding a partner with those qualities, it's good if you also emanate those qualities. Opposites DO attract because even if you have different personalities and interests, you are still on the same vibration of attraction (i.e. love). Even if someone seems different than you, they are there because you're on a similar wavelength. It's just manifesting as different qualities.

[rowan]

If you're looking for a long-term relationship, you're going to have to address your expectations:

Are you going to continue living with your parents once the relationship serious enough to be committed (if you're not interested in marriage)? If yes: I'm not going to lie, it will reduce your pool of women who will be interested. Because while living with in-laws is something that happens, it usually happens after the couple is already in a committed relationship. On a date, it's not exactly someone's going to be willing to jump into already.

Are you going to expect her to provide enough money to subsist (even frugally) on your own as a couple? If yes: this is less of an issue in my mind than the first one. For example, you could be a good house-husband and SAH (stay at home) father. This is perfectly reasonable expectation for a relationship to be, although ingrained cultural gender roles will still (sadly) reduce your available pool of women. Which is fine, because probably those who would be immediately turned off by that are probably people you don't want to date anyway. However I will note that this means someone is still relying on you. If they're working hard to provide enough money to support you, and you're just gallivanting off seeing plays and they don't get to relax themselves, it will eventually harbor resentment.

And a new one: are you going to expect her to be able to take off time whenever you want to go do something (like see your friend's performance, etc)? If yes: this might work if you're living with your parents and she doesn't have to work either, or somehow has a flexible job (they do exist...). But in general someone is going to have to earn money and that will reduce any flexibility that person has.

And the last one: Suppose you find a woman who is perfectly happy to be just as flexible as you, and just as care-free as you (wouldn't we all love to be able to just jaunt off on a whim to do whatever we'd like!), and is perfectly happy living with your parents so the money side of things is nearly negligible. What happens when your parents die? Because you know what? They're older than you, and statistically it will happen before you kick it. So you will absolutely need (as a couple) to have a plan in place for that situation.

These are just the financial considerations. ON TOP OF THAT you are throwing in:

I find social situations to be awkward, unintuitive, and not very fulfilling. (Due to difficulty in connecting with people, I am an eccentric individual and people find it hard to identify with me and vice versa.) I have this idea of what I'm looking for because of this and also because I feel like I know myself well enough to know that I couldn't deal emotionally with just casually "dating" someone

So you are not only a) a serious financial risk, which can totally be overcome if you find someone who is willing to see you as totally awesome; b) already have issues with connecting with people; c) only interested in jumping straight into a serious relationship, which wouldn't give someone time to actually figure out if you are totally awesome before taking a serious risk, and d) a greater risk emotionally for the woman in question due to your "strong attachment" issues (you mention it would be hard on you, but it will also be hard on her)

Any woman will probably want to be cautious given the risks involved. In general I don't think people will be this rational about it, which only makes it that much harder to find someone.

Again: I'm not saying you're screwed. Many people with non-normative expectations find happy, healthy relationships. But these are things you need to be thinking about, so that you can address them in the process of communication within a (potential) relationship, and you do have to recognize that due to cultural expectations it will reduce the pool of available women.

[eta: Ama's advice is good too, of course. I'm taking the practical tactic of actual dating conversations. You will need to expect people to ask you things similar to this, if you do try convincing someone to date you. If you just find people through activities, one might expect the friendship to come first, and then maybe move on from there, but at some point this will all come up in some conversation or another and you need to be prepared for it]

[lykin005]

OK so that was a lot take in, so if I miss something let me know! To Aum: I treat everyone I meet as a friend. I try to be sensitive and show respect and decency. But the idea that I should LOVE everyone is a little off putting to me. There's a video on youtube I'll link to in which Ayn Rand discusses love among other things. http://youtu.be/wMNUdDC4tEc I agree with everything she says in this video. Also I find it difficult to be open to love because I expect hurt from others. More specifically betrayal and abandonment.

To Rowan: My expectations of her putting up with my situation are in reality mostly hypothetical or philosophical. I don't foresee beginning a relationship until I'm on my own. But if she's the type to think that a man in that situation is unattractive she's not my type. As for these expectations lowering the pool of women. GOOD! I only want the fuckin one! I'm not looking for two or three or 1 1/2! This helps narrow the list down so it's easier to find the right one. I definitely want her to have the same attitude toward jobs and life. Essentially I wan't me in a woman's body. Obviously with some differences but more or less the same. Ideally we would both be living the same sort of lifestyle and have the same attitude. I want to be able to say "Hey you wanna go hiking or larping or invade abandoned property?" and she say "Fuck yeah!" This has more value to me than tons of money or a rich social life or lots of cool stuff (Love, Liberty, and Time! These are some of my favorite things!) so I plan my life and career around this and I want her to have the same values as I do. As for being "only" interested in serious relationships. I would say its more accurate to say I'm against dating. Ideally we would be great friends for a year or more and then move into a romance. (Like my parents did.)

[zibber]

I've deleted all my online dating profiles because the endless string of dates is not the method to get it to work out.

This is true, although that's fun too, but I've had my most special online dating-related moments when I really wasn't actively looking for anything and just randomly got a message from some incredibly awesome person. Why not just leave the profiles be when you're not using them? This whole thing is about chance and randomness and I think actively wiping profiles (besides simply being an unnecessary exertion of effort) is just a way of taking away one avenue of chance.

edit: Hey, an Ayn Rand video. Gosh, do I love coming across those.

[rowan]

What I'm trying to get at by reducing the pool to draw from, is not that you need to find more than one person. But if only 1 out of 100,000 will meet your criteria, the chances of you finding that person in your small area (and even smaller social circles) is fairly unlikely, statistically speaking. Not impossible, again, but just less likely. That's all I was saying.

[lykin005]

To Zibber: I take it your not an Ayn Rand fan?

To Rowan: I see what your saying now. I don't know about you but I believe in fate (Determinism more specifically.) So it's easier for me to expect that this unlikely situation would happen. Edit: You know as I typed that I began to question it. I'ma have to think on that one for awhile.

[rowan]

Well if it's fate, then you don't need to be asking the question on whether or not you're screwed, do you?

[anonymousrabbit]

The thing is, even if you believe in fate, unless you believe your fate is to be a shut-in who doesn't do anything, you still have to do stuff. Whether your actions were predetermined or not, you still have to do those actions to make them happen. It's kinda like that old joke about the person who was drowning, and ze prayed to god to save zer from that fate. A lifegaurd, a raft, and a boat all come and offer to save zer, but ze refuses each saying "god will save me", but then drowns. When ze gets to heaven, ze asks god "why didn't you save me?" to which god replies "I sent you a lifegaurd, a raft and a boat; why didn't you take any of those?"

[Sonic#]

lykin, Ayn Rand would look at what you have written and say, "Well, you don't deserve anyone then, because you're unwilling to take up the responsibility of work." Her argument is for people to see and respond to the worth in one another through admiration. She hated people unwilling to work because she assumes they have no worth, that they're leeches on those that do work. She also hated determinists, because she believed that anyone could improve their own self, their own condition.

My concern isn't so judgmental, but I do wonder when you say you want to avoid responsibility by not working. I have two related questions:
Don't you know that relationships inevitably entail responsibility and work of their own?
What will you *do*? Even without the practical considerations of supporting yourself, people need things (hobbies, activities) to hold their time and interest, to drive them, to inspire them.

[lykin005]

To Anonymousrabbit: I think that if I have to live my life as if I am a different person or otherwise do things I would not otherwise do in order to find love, I would consider that love to be inauthentic. I will live my life as I intend to and hope that this leads to love. (Which is to say a life made up of solitary activities like martial arts and video games and hiking and urban exploration and parkour etc.) The reason I don't ask any girls out or date or anything is because I have not encountered many women whom I am attracted to beyond physically. I've not met a women who has the same values and views on life. Not to mention the fact that I have no money or the means to travel.

To Sonic#: I definitely find a lot of Ayn Rands views to be very closed minded and pretty ridiculous, but the stuff she said in that video taken on it's own I absolutely agree with. As for being a leech, I understand that if I do minimal work I will be getting minimal pay and thus will have to live very frugally. This is absolutely fine with me! I WANT to live that way! I don't reluctantly decide to. I agree with the idea that anyone can change and become what they want to be according to their will. I think mostly Ayn Rand was far too materialistic, she treats money as if it has it's own inherent value, and achievement of any sort as if it's something you can necessarily derive pleasure from. These things hold little value to me. In fact the only value they have is when they lead to me achieving one of my own values. For example I would work at a job I didn't enjoy if it paid absurdly well only because it would mean I could retire very soon, not because I could succeed in that field. When I say I want to avoid responsibility I mean avoid the stress which comes with the risk and possibility of failing to live up to your responsibility. Others can put up with this because stress doesn't affect them as it does me, or because the stress is offset by the pleasure they derive from succeeding in their chosen career. The way stress affects me is too much (I often black out in rage if it is prolonged.) for any achievement or pride in my work to offset the stress. A relationships stress would be offset by the trust, love, intimacy, and emotional comfort provided by my love. I will be willing to work and to take responsibility in the context of a romance because that is something I place a lot of value on. As far as what I will do with her. I would like to go hiking, sparring, go to the museum, play video games, practice archery, go larping, explore abandoned buildings, go to conventions etc etc. I prefer solitary activities that we could share together or could be done with a fairly small amount people. I realize conventions would involve large groups of people but I wouldn't be directly interacting with most of them.

[Eravial]

Ok, so, currently, you don't really socialize, you don't participate in any group activities, you don't really have friends, and don't really interact with anyone except in passing and your parents? Do I have that correct? So, where exactly do you think you'll meet this girl? You say you'd like to be friends for like a year first and maybe develop into a romance, but it seems like you aren't even trying to become friends with ANYONE, you're just looking for someone with whom you connect immediately without much interaction, which, I hate to break it to you, doesn't happen. A girl isn't just going to come up to you out of nowhere and say "Hi! Let's be friends!" You are going to have to find a way to interact with a significant number of people to find someone that you can connect with and who can handle and connect with you. Short of an arranged marriage, I see you finding someone using your current strategy to be extremely unlikely. But hey, maybe fate will just take care of it.

ETA: You know, maybe online dating would work well for you. Clearly you can interact on the internet alright, and you'd be able to get to know someone a little better before having to jump into in-person socialization. Just be up front about your socialization quirks, since they may come as a shock once you actually meet in person if they don't have any warning.

[lykin005]

I do prefer more solitary activity's, but I do like being around people who I can relate to or who are very accepting of me. With that in mind I have begun attending a group for people with aspergers and one of my friends has invited me to go to hang out with him on Saturdays and also has given me a part in his play. As for internet dating I have tried okcupid with minimal success. (I'm a unique person so finding someone similar to me is going to very hard.)

[Kalpine]

Hello, just read this epic thread and there are lots of great thoughts and ideas.
I think online dating is quite fun... I did this when I had been divorced for a while and was feeling down, working all with guys really isnt the help some people think it would be, and I didn't have any friends around.

I didn't march in looking for a perfect relationship, just chatted to people for long enough (ie maybe 30min) to see if i wanted to set up a date during my lunch hour (my criteria were: someone fun, and around my own age, and not looking for a full serious relationship either), then met up (was terrified the first time!) I think it's a great way of getting more comfortable with people and seeing if there's someone you'd like to see more. Some of the key pointers i found: to be honest with everyone, but don't rush in to spilling your guts about everything, or texting like a stalker.

In the end I'm married to a mate of one of the guys I worked with, just because his mate thought it would be funny to send messages from my phone to a whole heap of his friends ("I want you now" etc) very embarrassing, but ended up ok.

Good luck with everything. Just remember, "opposites attract, then drive each other insane".