Which wave of feminism do you most identify with?

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Which wave of feminism do you most identify with?

first
1
17%
second
1
17%
third
0
No votes
fourth
1
17%
I'm not a feminist.
3
50%
 
Total votes: 6

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Angelica
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Which wave of feminism do you most identify with?

Postby Angelica » Tue Sep 13, 0:06 2016

Explain.

I believe that the 1960s to early 1990s women's liberation movement epitomized feminism so far. This is because it was radical without being transphobic, it was countercultural, and it represented a unified sisterhood that was more effective than any of the other waves we've had so far at fighting the patriarchy. More progress was made by the second wave than by any of the others.

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Re: Which wave of feminism do you most identify with?

Postby Nech » Tue Sep 13, 12:10 2016

Which wave are you referring to as transphobic?
Where there's smoke, there's fire. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. So just shut up, and bring some water.

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Re: Which wave of feminism do you most identify with?

Postby Angelica » Tue Sep 13, 12:12 2016

Nech wrote:Which wave are you referring to as transphobic?

Third and fourth-wave radical feminism (TERF).

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Re: Which wave of feminism do you most identify with?

Postby Nech » Tue Sep 13, 12:46 2016

I'll just link this right from the 3rd and 4th wave wiki (which should be basic info to know if you're going to critique something)...no Donald Trumping please!

"Third-wave feminism regards race, social class, transgender rights, and sexual liberation as central issues"

"...the fourth wave has been associated with the increased focus on intersectionality, including the repudiation of trans-exclusionary radical feminism and a focus on solidarity with other social justice movements."
Where there's smoke, there's fire. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. So just shut up, and bring some water.

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Re: Which wave of feminism do you most identify with?

Postby MFS » Tue Sep 13, 14:26 2016

New wave.
It's a big world, and it never stays the same.
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Angelica
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Re: Which wave of feminism do you most identify with?

Postby Angelica » Tue Sep 13, 14:45 2016

Nech wrote:I'll just link this right from the 3rd and 4th wave wiki (which should be basic info to know if you're going to critique something)...no Donald Trumping please!

"Third-wave feminism regards race, social class, transgender rights, and sexual liberation as central issues"

"...the fourth wave has been associated with the increased focus on intersectionality, including the repudiation of trans-exclusionary radical feminism and a focus on solidarity with other social justice movements."

You're misinterpreting what I'm saying, which is my fault since I wasn't clear. I actually think third and fourth-wave feminism in general are more cisphobic than transphobic. I was referring only to radical feminism, which became transphobic in the third wave.

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Re: Which wave of feminism do you most identify with?

Postby Nech » Tue Sep 13, 16:01 2016

Angelica wrote:You're misinterpreting what I'm saying, which is my fault since I wasn't clear. I actually think third and fourth-wave feminism in general are more cisphobic than transphobic. I was referring only to radical feminism, which became transphobic in the third wave.


Well seeing as how this is the first time you've mentioned cisphobia or even compared transphobia to anything else, yeah that one's definitely on you. XD

I haven't heard of 3rd wave radicals (if radicals can even be counter in the respective waves the movement) being transphobic at all though. Got any citations?
Where there's smoke, there's fire. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. So just shut up, and bring some water.

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Re: Which wave of feminism do you most identify with?

Postby Angelica » Tue Sep 13, 18:22 2016

Nech wrote:I haven't heard of 3rd wave radicals (if radicals can even be counter in the respective waves the movement) being transphobic at all though. Got any citations?

TERF is quite a commonly used term, I don't need any citations for this as most feminists know it stands for trans-exclusionary radical feminist. Google it if you've never heard of it. Radical feminists these days have a reputation for being transphobic.

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Re: Which wave of feminism do you most identify with?

Postby Nech » Wed Sep 14, 3:47 2016

I thought you might be referring to TERFs, but had hoped you had a better example. Perhaps you should follow your own advice and give it a quick Google.

2nd result down - "Out of respect for actual RadFems [read: Real Radical Feminists], the trans community has stopped supporting the appropriation of the radical feminist identity by what is essentially a hate group. Thus, we instead use Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists (TERFs)[read: Not indicative of any feminist movement radical or mainstream]"

Not really sure you can claim a small hate group being pushed away from the Feminist movement by Radical Feminists, Feminists in the mainstream sense (i.e. the respective waves) and representative of an entire wave of Feminism. So hopefully you have an actual example of real Feminists (and not someone trying steal the name of a separate movement) being transphobic with citations, because I was genuinely curious and really hope it wasn't just TERFs you were talking about.
Where there's smoke, there's fire. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. So just shut up, and bring some water.

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Re: Which wave of feminism do you most identify with?

Postby Angelica » Wed Sep 14, 6:06 2016

I was under the impression that a high percentage of radfems were TERFs. Is this not true? Is standard radical feminism considered trans-inclusionary?

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Re: Which wave of feminism do you most identify with?

Postby rowan » Wed Sep 14, 9:38 2016

I think that for the most part radical feminists are not TERFs, but I don't have statistics to back that up.

That said you are totally ignoring the fact that transphobia has been part of every single feminist wave. Because feminists are people and large groups of people naturally contain within them biases that society overall has.
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Re: Which wave of feminism do you most identify with?

Postby Pikachu » Wed Sep 14, 9:51 2016

Angelica wrote:
Nech wrote:I haven't heard of 3rd wave radicals (if radicals can even be counter in the respective waves the movement) being transphobic at all though. Got any citations?

TERF is quite a commonly used term, I don't need any citations for this as most feminists know it stands for trans-exclusionary radical feminist. Google it if you've never heard of it. Radical feminists these days have a reputation for being transphobic.


TERFS call themselves "gender critical feminists". They regard the TERF label as a misogynist slur. You'll get more results if you use gender critical feminism in a search engine as when you use TERF, you get the trans activist response to them instead of the anti trans content as is.

And I must say having read their rhetoric, they're highly skilled in wordplay, and use every trick in the english language to make transwomen or as they put it, "SCAMS", sound hideous and abominable.

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Re: Which wave of feminism do you most identify with?

Postby Angelica » Wed Sep 14, 10:44 2016

rowan wrote:I think that for the most part radical feminists are not TERFs, but I don't have statistics to back that up.

That said you are totally ignoring the fact that transphobia has been part of every single feminist wave. Because feminists are people and large groups of people naturally contain within them biases that society overall has.

Interesting. I didn't know that transphobia was significantly present in the feminist movement before the third wave. Are you sure?

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Re: Which wave of feminism do you most identify with?

Postby Enigma » Wed Sep 14, 11:35 2016

Angelica wrote:
rowan wrote:I think that for the most part radical feminists are not TERFs, but I don't have statistics to back that up.

That said you are totally ignoring the fact that transphobia has been part of every single feminist wave. Because feminists are people and large groups of people naturally contain within them biases that society overall has.

Interesting. I didn't know that transphobia was significantly present in the feminist movement before the third wave. Are you sure?

I think we can be fairly sure that the suffragettes for instance probably didn't have any education/exposure to the issue. So yes. Also that one chapter in The Feminine Mystique that we don't speak off.

Feminists like any group weren't magically hit with a complete belief system. It's the process of saying something's not right here, lets try and fix it. So as Rowan said they're people. And people are of their time.
"Human beings are amazing... we might be horrible, horrible, but we're wonderful too. Otherwise, why go on?"

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Re: Which wave of feminism do you most identify with?

Postby Angelica » Thu Sep 15, 7:29 2016

Enigma wrote:I think we can be fairly sure that the suffragettes for instance probably didn't have any education/exposure to the issue. So yes.

That doesn't mean they were transphobic.

Enigma wrote:Also that one chapter in The Feminine Mystique that we don't speak off.

Which chapter is that (which number)?

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Re: Which wave of feminism do you most identify with?

Postby Nachos » Thu Sep 15, 15:21 2016

Pants wave.
Ugh, I'm tired of my signature.

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Re: Which wave of feminism do you most identify with?

Postby Alison369 » Thu Oct 13, 7:47 2016

Cool, I didn't know about the 4 different waves before.
(I had to just look up what each one was)

I mean, I know about sufferage, and the later wave of the 1960s.

I wasnt quite sure how to answer this, when trying to identfy with a particular wave.
But I think the first suits my general beliefs :)
Where, back then it was about achieving a particular goal for greater equality, and challenging the idea of what it meant to be lady like.

I also like the idea of using the political system to change laws that have a universal effect.
And I think the sufferage movement was the biggest accomplishment so far :)

Seriously - It brought in millions of new voters, and amended the consititution!
Now, That's pretty awesome :)


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