Don't give your kids antidepressants.

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Re: Don't give your kids antidepressants.

Postby Aum » Wed Sep 14, 8:45 2016

There's very little evidence that SSRIs actually do what they claim to do and in fact a lot of growing evidence shows they can cause long-term harm. Suicidal people who take SSRIs are more likely to have worse suicidiality starting about 6 months in. For long term users, sudden cessation of the drug can initiate immediate withdrawal symptoms, which in turn can cause brain damage. (Lookup SSRI Discontinuation Syndrome, their fancy word to avoid calling it drug withdrawals.) Adolescents given SSRIs for longer than 6 months can have developmental abnormalities cognitively, especially pertaining to the limbic system. I should know, I was given SSRIs for 3 years as a teenager. How do you develop normal emotional rhythms if your emotions are shut off?

There's also no evidence that depression is caused by a "chemical imbalance", it's just one of those lines that doctors like to use and we're supposed to believe it because they're doctors. Nobody ever receives a neurochemistry diagnostic panel because they're uber expensive, there is no ideal time of day to test, and they stopped doing them wide scale years ago because there is no baseline reading to indicate "depression". Basically we are just prescribing SSRIs based on 35 year old research that has never had much follow up.

Most research shows that SSRIs, like benzos, are OK for short term crisis intervention in order to break the cycle, as long as it's accompanied by counseling of some kind. But the treatment success rate goes dowm after about 3-6 months.

I don't think we should tell people with mental health issues to just suck it up. That's not fair. We don't tell people with physical abilities to do that. Mental health is no different. But I think our treatment protocols are dubious, especially in national systems where mental health resources and institutions are declining in favour of pharmaco-psychology. People need the root causes of their depression addressed. Very few people are depressed for intractable reasons, like structural problems in their brains. Most people it's due to diet, stress, trauma, or lifestyle.
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Re: Don't give your kids antidepressants.

Postby Angelica » Wed Sep 14, 10:35 2016

ladyhawk wrote:Really? More fucked up than you telling people suffering from depression and suicidal ideations to stop complaining and just be happy? Do you read what you post, or do you just turn your brain off and start keyboard smashing?

Yes, far more fucked up than anything I've ever said. I'm supremely enlightened, the world isn't ready to hear the truth. People in general are lightyears behind where I am intellectually, that's why the world is fucked. Our only salvation is the Messiah Isabella. I'm an archangel of the one and only God of this creation, who is female. This male-god-worshiping world does immense harm to human beings. Hopefully ishtarlover will join this thread and back me up. She's an archangel of a different creation which also has a female God.

If you don't get how this relates: male god worship -> patriarchy -> fucked up shit.

Aum, I really like your post, except for this part:

Aum wrote:I don't think we should tell people with mental health issues to just suck it up. That's not fair. We don't tell people with physical [disabilities, I'm assuming] to do that. Mental health is no different.

It's totally different. Mental health, by definition, is all in the mind. Physical disabilities are based on physical reality, which is completely real. The shit people think is not.

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Re: Don't give your kids antidepressants.

Postby rowan » Wed Sep 14, 11:03 2016

No. It is not "just all in the mind". What you are spouting is actively dangerous.
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Re: Don't give your kids antidepressants.

Postby ladyhawk » Wed Sep 14, 11:04 2016

Image

Edit:
Angelica wrote:Physical disabilities are based on physical reality, which is completely real. The shit people think is not.


So, yeah, that actually explains A LOT about you.
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Re: Don't give your kids antidepressants.

Postby Angelica » Wed Sep 14, 11:17 2016

rowan wrote:No. It is not "just all in the mind". What you are spouting is actively dangerous.

Please explain. How is mental health not controlled by the mind? Do you buy into the "chemical imbalance" line of bullshit used to sell psychiatric drugs?

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Re: Don't give your kids antidepressants.

Postby Nech » Wed Sep 14, 11:43 2016

Angelica wrote:Well, I've had sex with 2 circumcised males in my lifetime and both of them told me they needed lube.


Well my sample size is bigger, and I'm a circumcised male myself, and I'm telling you they either had a botched job that left the skin too taught or it's just their preference. It is NOT a necessary thing.

Your stance on mental health issues is appalling and shows a severe lack of knowledge, understanding, and empathy. Should really try to not preach about stuff you apparently know nothing about.
Where there's smoke, there's fire. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. So just shut up, and bring some water.

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Re: Don't give your kids antidepressants.

Postby Enigma » Wed Sep 14, 11:50 2016

Angelica wrote:
rowan wrote:No. It is not "just all in the mind". What you are spouting is actively dangerous.

Please explain. How is mental health not controlled by the mind? Do you buy into the "chemical imbalance" line of bullshit used to sell psychiatric drugs?

Are you implying a mind can't malfunction physically the way the rest of the body does? What exactly makes it different?
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Re: Don't give your kids antidepressants.

Postby Angelica » Wed Sep 14, 11:59 2016

Enigma wrote:Are you implying a mind can't malfunction physically the way the rest of the body does? What exactly makes it different?

It's different because the body makes you feel physical pain or discomfort when something is physically wrong.

Nech wrote:Your stance on mental health issues is appalling and shows a severe lack of knowledge, understanding, and empathy. Should really try to not preach about stuff you apparently know nothing about.

Your opinion means jack shit to me in light of the revelation in my above sentence.

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Re: Don't give your kids antidepressants.

Postby Nech » Wed Sep 14, 12:11 2016

Angelica wrote:It's different because the body makes you feel physical pain or discomfort when something is physically wrong.


This revelation? It's not really a revelation, it's just a fact that body makes you feel pain when something is wrong. But that doesn't disprove mental illness.

You do realize that mental health issues are the brains way of showing something is wrong right? Just like when the body produces pain.
Where there's smoke, there's fire. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. So just shut up, and bring some water.

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Re: Don't give your kids antidepressants.

Postby Enigma » Wed Sep 14, 12:13 2016

Nech wrote:
Angelica wrote:It's different because the body makes you feel physical pain or discomfort when something is physically wrong.


This revelation? It's not really a revelation, it's just a fact that body makes you feel pain when something is wrong. But that doesn't disprove mental illness.

You do realize that mental health issues are the brains way of showing something is wrong right? Just like when the body produces pain.

...also.... headaches exist????? and things can go wrong with the rest of your body which doesn't cause pain?
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Re: Don't give your kids antidepressants.

Postby Angelica » Wed Sep 14, 12:18 2016

Nech wrote:
Angelica wrote:It's different because the body makes you feel physical pain or discomfort when something is physically wrong.


This revelation? It's not really a revelation, it's just a fact that body makes you feel pain when something is wrong. But that doesn't disprove mental illness.

You do realize that mental health issues are the brains way of showing something is wrong right? Just like when the body produces pain.

The absence of physical pain or discomfort means nothing is physically wrong. You can't touch the logic behind this with your wishy-washy "let's give them drugs to make them feel better" load of crap. Drugs are not the solution to mental/emotional issues, they only make things worse. I don't appreciate being called unempathetic. I have immense empathy for people with genuine problems.

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Re: Don't give your kids antidepressants.

Postby Nech » Wed Sep 14, 12:22 2016

Enigma wrote:...also.... headaches exist????? and things can go wrong with the rest of your body which doesn't cause pain?


I was thinking about mentioning headaches, but I wasn't sure if there were any that came from mental health issues or if they were the more "physical" side of things (it seems for the sake of this thread, the physicality behind/that cause mental issues is being ignored). I know my headaches are mostly from lack of hydration/food/sleep or being physically sick.

Angelica wrote:I have immense empathy for people with genuine problems.


I think suicide is a pretty genuine problem. So fuck you for trivializing risk to human life behind some sort of pseudo anti-drug campaign. You sound like a god damn anti-vaxxer.
Where there's smoke, there's fire. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. So just shut up, and bring some water.

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Re: Don't give your kids antidepressants.

Postby Taurwen » Wed Sep 14, 12:29 2016

Enigma wrote:and things can go wrong with the rest of your body which doesn't cause pain?


Psht. Everyone knows cancer isn't bad for you until it starts hurting. Hell, my tooth split in two the other week but nothing hurt before or after so I'm sure it's honky dory.

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Re: Don't give your kids antidepressants.

Postby Angelica » Wed Sep 14, 12:31 2016

Taurwen wrote:Psht. Everyone knows cancer isn't bad for you until it starts hurting. Hell, my tooth split in two the other week but nothing hurt before or after so I'm sure it's honky dory.

It isn't bad for you while it doesn't hurt but it should be treated as a preemptive measure. Mental health issues will never start to hurt, therefore no preemptive treatment is needed.

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Re: Don't give your kids antidepressants.

Postby Enigma » Wed Sep 14, 12:32 2016

Angelica wrote:
Nech wrote:
Angelica wrote:It's different because the body makes you feel physical pain or discomfort when something is physically wrong.


This revelation? It's not really a revelation, it's just a fact that body makes you feel pain when something is wrong. But that doesn't disprove mental illness.

You do realize that mental health issues are the brains way of showing something is wrong right? Just like when the body produces pain.

The absence of physical pain or discomfort means nothing is physically wrong. You can't touch the logic behind this with your wishy-washy "let's give them drugs to make them feel better" load of crap. Drugs are not the solution to mental/emotional issues, they only make things worse. I don't appreciate being called unempathetic. I have immense empathy for people with genuine problems.

Diseases of the body exist which cause no pain. That's why we get tested for things. Also the brain is a different and far more complex organ. Drugs can be HUGELY helpful for some people with some mental illnesses. I'm going to go ahead and assume you don't really know much about the brain though.

I'd recommend a book I recently read. "Brain on Fire" by Susannah Cahalan. It's a quick read and a best seller. It's a case study in that it's one person's experience with a very specific problem but I found the way it tied mental illness to physical illness and illustrated how little we really understand the brain and how it reacts to be very interesting. Might help you think a little less black and whitely and have a bit more humility when you're deciding who has a "genuine problem".
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Re: Don't give your kids antidepressants.

Postby Angelica » Wed Sep 14, 12:33 2016

Nech wrote:fuck you

Is flaming allowed on this forum? I'm pretty sure I would be banned if I said that.

The amount of feel-good ignore-the-truth liberalism here is staggering.

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Re: Don't give your kids antidepressants.

Postby Bork » Wed Sep 14, 13:15 2016

Angelica wrote:
Taurwen wrote:Psht. Everyone knows cancer isn't bad for you until it starts hurting. Hell, my tooth split in two the other week but nothing hurt before or after so I'm sure it's honky dory.

It isn't bad for you while it doesn't hurt but it should be treated as a preemptive measure. Mental health issues will never start to hurt, therefore no preemptive treatment is needed.


No. Cancer is definitely bad for you before it hurts. Pain indicates cancer is advancing and interfering with things. If you can catch and treat cancer before it starts hurting, or before you have other symptoms, you seriously increase your chances for a positive outcome.

And let's keep this civil, guys. Disagreeing is fine, but play nice.
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Re: Don't give your kids antidepressants.

Postby Angelica » Wed Sep 14, 13:30 2016

Bork wrote:No. Cancer is definitely bad for you before it hurts. Pain indicates cancer is advancing and interfering with things. If you can catch and treat cancer before it starts hurting, or before you have other symptoms, you seriously increase your chances for a positive outcome.

That's what I mean by preemptive treatment. It's not bad for you at the present time, but it will be in the future, so it needs to be treated to prevent the damage from occurring.

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Re: Don't give your kids antidepressants.

Postby melsbells » Wed Sep 14, 14:42 2016

so neuropathy can only be a sign of health

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Re: Don't give your kids antidepressants.

Postby Angelica » Wed Sep 14, 15:03 2016

melsbells wrote:so neuropathy can only be a sign of health

It's a sign of future illness if not treated. The illness is in the future, not in the present. At the present, if there is no pain or discomfort, the body can cope just fine.

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Re: Don't give your kids antidepressants.

Postby Aum » Wed Sep 14, 16:40 2016

Angelica wrote:
rowan wrote:No. It is not "just all in the mind". What you are spouting is actively dangerous.

Please explain. How is mental health not controlled by the mind? Do you buy into the "chemical imbalance" line of bullshit used to sell psychiatric drugs?


Are you saying that the mind can't get sick? Where does mind end and the body begin? What is your evidence that people just need to "change their minds" in order to get better, across all cases?

Which mental health conditions are we talking about? Things like schizophrenia and bipolar are very neurochemically mediated. This is proven scientifically. Maybe you need to do more research?

Other conditions like narcissism (which you seem to suffer from), borderline personality disorder and antisocial personality disorder... they are very ingrained, either from childhood experience or a combination of nature/nurture. Your core personality is formed at a very early age, it is very difficult if impossible to change.

Just because I don't buy into the neurochemical basis for mental disease in EVERYONE doesn't mean I think it's wholesale bullshit.

Your ignorance is dangerous, but you know that which is why you're trolling so hard.
The artist's job is not to succumb to despair, but to find an antidote to the emptiness of existence. -W.A.

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Re: Don't give your kids antidepressants.

Postby Angelica » Wed Sep 14, 17:15 2016

Aum wrote:Where does mind end and the body begin?

Read the thread, I've already explained this.

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Re: Don't give your kids antidepressants.

Postby Sonic# » Wed Sep 14, 17:22 2016

^ You were also demonstrated to be making it up. So it's a valid question to ask again.

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Re: Don't give your kids antidepressants.

Postby Angelica » Wed Sep 14, 17:44 2016

Sonic# wrote:^ You were also demonstrated to be making it up. So it's a valid question to ask again.

Demonstrated how? To be making what up? I said the body begins where physical pain or discomfort is felt when something is wrong. If the pain is purely emotional, it's all in the mind. This is perfectly clear, you guys are just blinded by your liberal drug-pushing agenda.

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Re: Don't give your kids antidepressants.

Postby ladyhawk » Wed Sep 14, 18:17 2016

I'm blinded with science!

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