Women's self defense

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Ana

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Women's self defense

Postby Ana » Wed Jan 18, 18:09 2017

There's a lot of women's self defense courses nowadays, but I always wonder if any of those technics they talk about would be useful not just in theory but in real life or if it's just a way to make you spend your money. Have any of you frequented such courses or know something about those technics which might really help women facing assault?

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Re: Women's self defense

Postby luckypony » Thu Jan 19, 10:39 2017

Well, I take a course of kick boxing for over a year already. I think that self defence course is a good idea in such a case.

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Re: Women's self defense

Postby Aum » Thu Jan 19, 14:29 2017

I've never been to one but I know many who have. The courses can't possibly teach comprehensive self-defense over a single weekend, but that's not the point. The point is to let women know the dynamics of attacks and what tools they have at their immediate disposal to save themselves. Popular media always makes it look like that women are easily subdued but the truth is that less than half of attacks are successful.

You'd be surprised how effective it is to scream savagely at an attacker while going for the throat, the crotch, the eyes, whatever else. You do what you can.
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Re: Women's self defense

Postby Enigma » Thu Jan 19, 16:10 2017

I took one when I was about 13 and all I remember now is that pressure points exist behind the ear. At the time it felt fairly useful I think.
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Re: Women's self defense

Postby Taurwen » Fri Jan 20, 10:40 2017

I've never taken an official one. But as a kid I got a bunch through school and brownies and such but those were about how to defend yourself as a child. In high school one of the Phys Ed sections was two weeks of defense (the only part of phys Ed that wasn't a waste of my time). I felt that was very useful it covered how to break the hold of an assailant depending on where they grabbed you, as well as the ultimate technique of "Grab Twist Pull" anytime a man's testicles were in reach. It taught us the proper way to hold keys in our hands as a weapon and how the best defence once an altercation has started is a good offence (most men don't expect a real fight. Screaming savagely (instead of a "help me" kind of scream) while trying to key their eyes/throat is one of the best ways to throw them off their game.

I keep meaning to take another one geared towards women out of their adolescence. Beyond how useful they are I think they're fun and interesting.

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Re: Women's self defense

Postby rowan » Fri Jan 20, 17:52 2017

There are definitely good ones and not so good ones. Like people are like "hey martial arts!" and as someone who has a black belt I'm like yanno, that's just not the point of martial arts mostly. You need a course that is going to help you overcome the inhibitions instilled in us from very young. Something that teaches how to disable someone else and then get away. Something that deals with de-escalation; how to carry yourself so that you're less of a target, etc. But mostly the thing about overcoming inhibitions of hitting someone hard enough to disable them; that is by far the hardest thing.

That's not to say my martial art training wouldn't be useful, my reflexes are good, my knowledge of painful anatomy is good, but in the end, my self defense course that I took would be way more useful. Thankfully I have not had to put it into practice.
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Re: Women's self defense

Postby Ana » Fri Jan 20, 18:18 2017

Taurwen wrote:I felt that was very useful it covered how to break the hold of an assailant depending on where they grabbed you, as well as the ultimate technique of "Grab Twist Pull" anytime a man's testicles were in reach. It taught us the proper way to hold keys in our hands as a weapon and how the best defence once an altercation has started is a good offence (most men don't expect a real fight. Screaming savagely (instead of a "help me" kind of scream) while trying to key their eyes/throat is one of the best ways to throw them off their game.


Well, trying to key their eyes/throat, although surely effective, seems extreme to me. I think one should only do it under a proven serious threat, not a perceived or minor one. I had never heard about Grab Twist Pull before. That one is also extreme. It seems fun though. Just kidding.

Rowan also has a point. Learning how to de-escalate situations and become less of a target are also very important.

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Re: Women's self defense

Postby Taurwen » Fri Jan 20, 22:56 2017

Proven serious threat is often too late. You're not going to do all that much damage to a throat with your keys, but the serious attempt is going to make an attacker think thrice about their chosen target.

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Re: Women's self defense

Postby Galen » Sat Jan 21, 7:42 2017

I took a Model Mugging course in Boston back in the '80s. It was very intense, but very empowering. They're still in business, but only in certain areas. Worth a google!

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Re: Women's self defense

Postby lexiewalt » Sat Jan 21, 8:10 2017

Taurwen wrote:I've never taken an official one. But as a kid I got a bunch through school and brownies and such but those were about how to defend yourself as a child. In high school one of the Phys Ed sections was two weeks of defense (the only part of phys Ed that wasn't a waste of my time). I felt that was very useful it covered how to break the hold of an assailant depending on where they grabbed you, as well as the ultimate technique of "Grab Twist Pull" anytime a man's testicles were in reach. It taught us the proper way to hold keys in our hands as a weapon and how the best defence once an altercation has started is a good offence (most men don't expect a real fight.



Yes at school we learnt the equivalent of your "grab twist pull" - "knee push pull" - apart from screaming and fighting, we were encouraged to use our sharp knees to injure any attacker and/or push him away and/or pull his hose (which should be hard if he intends to use it). But making as much noise as poss is always a good thing as you say - if an attacker realises he hasn't got an easy "hit", he may give up.
At college a girl was actually assaulted while ON THE WAY to a self-defence class - she got away by punching him hard in the goolies.
She became a poster girl for the class.

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Re: Women's self defense

Postby Ana » Sat Jan 21, 10:15 2017

lexiewalt wrote:Yes at school we learnt the equivalent of your "grab twist pull" - "knee push pull" - apart from screaming and fighting, we were encouraged to use our sharp knees to injure any attacker and/or push him away and/or pull his hose (which should be hard if he intends to use it). But making as much noise as poss is always a good thing as you say - if an attacker realises he hasn't got an easy "hit", he may give up.
At college a girl was actually assaulted while ON THE WAY to a self-defence class - she got away by punching him hard in the goolies.
She became a poster girl for the class.


I have also never heard before of "knee push pull". That appears to be a harder technique than "grab twist pull".

It's great that the course proved to be useful to her. Her success in that situation must have been encouraging for the other girls in the course.

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Re: Women's self defense

Postby melsbells » Sat Jan 21, 12:49 2017

I've been to demonstrations that were school sponsored/mandatory but not an active class. I would say that the demonstrations are not particularly helpful, probably because of what Rowan mentioned and overcoming inhibitions.

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Re: Women's self defense

Postby Tweek » Sun Jan 22, 12:42 2017

I'm surprised that nobody suggested:

1. Kick him in the groin
2. Cover him in kerosene
3. Set fire to him

It is the Spacefem way! :kkf:
ARG!!! I NEED COFFEE!!!

lexiewalt

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Re: Women's self defense

Postby lexiewalt » Sun Jan 22, 14:49 2017

Tweek wrote:I'm surprised that nobody suggested:

1. Kick him in the groin
2. Cover him in kerosene
3. Set fire to him

It is the Spacefem way! :kkf:


If only that were legal!

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Re: Women's self defense

Postby Bork » Mon Jan 23, 13:15 2017

I took self defense (as a PE class!) in highschool. It was a semester long course and we went over a lot of different defense strategies. I think the best, and most beneficial part, was that they had actual attackers that we got to practice hitting full force to develop muscle memory for those situations. It's been a while, but I feel confidant that I would remember enough from the class to have a decent chance at fighting off an attacker.
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Re: Women's self defense

Postby Kittysu » Thu Jan 26, 15:33 2017

Taurwen wrote: it covered how to break the hold of an assailant depending on where they grabbed you, as well as the ultimate technique of "Grab Twist Pull" anytime a man's testicles were in reach.


I recently read a great post by a woman who teaches Krav Maga (a self-defense system developed for the Israel Defense Forces) to women and girls. She believes that this is such an effective technique for women of all ages that it should be taught far and wide. I agree with her. We don't have to be particularly strong for it to be effective due to the extreme vulnerability of testicles.

Safety for women is something which I'm really passionate about, so I'll include her full post for all to read as I think it contains some important points for this technique to be most effective. It's quite lengthy but it's full of useful information related to this powerful technique. I wish that all women could read and remember it:

As a female solo traveler of many years myself, and a womens self defense instructor I’d like to share a safety tip of my own which I hope you and your female readers will read, remember, and share with many other women and girls far and wide.

I have been teaching Krav Maga to women and girls for over five years and we teach a very effective technique which I feel should should be in every woman and girls arsenal. We are a women only event, run by women, for women, and there is an extremely effective technique what we teach to women of all ages, which I feel we should all share as far and wide with as many others as possible.

The technique is the “groin grab” self defense technique which is to be used against a male attacker, which is now taught in many womens self defense classes, and there is actually a little trick to it…

To execute this technique, you’re going to take your hand and quickly grasp between the attackers thighs underhand. Its going to feel like you’re “cradling” the testicles. Quickly grab hold of, or snatch the testicles and dig your fingertips into the fragile skin BEHIND the scrotum. Then, once you have a good grip, you turn your hand into a vice, with your fingers digging inwards, around the back and over the top of the testicles. If you do it right, you should feel the testes INSIDE your hand which is holding the scrotum. You want, whenever possible, to hook your fingers over and around at least one testicle. One of them is enough.

Then, with your hands in a claw and your fingertips latched around the testes, you turn your hand sharply, as though you were turning a doorknob. Simultaneously, squeeze hard and pull the testicles away from his body as fast and as hard as you can. DO NOT LET GO OF THEM. This is very important. What happens then, is that your assailant usually screams out in pain and then tries to grab the wrist of your hand holding him in a futile attempt to try to get you to release him. DON’T. He then quickly loses one of the natural advantages he usually has over us (his strength) within a matter of seconds. Vomiting, curling over, collapsing and convulsing is common. Shock and unconsciousness can set in within 8 seconds. If he initially starts to fight back then you tuck your head in and keep squeezing his testicles until he faints. This only takes a matter of seconds. When he collapses, which he will, you get away to safety as quickly as possible and call for help. I’ve heard of two older women who dragged their attackers to a place of safety while holding them by the testicles. It may sound odd but testicles are so vulnerable and sensitive that this technique also works very well for women. I also like to share the story of the woman who was threatened with the words “do as I say or else…” by the younger man who attacked her, but she turned the situation around and he eventually ended up collapsing and begging her to phone the police while she maintained a tight grip on his testicles.

It’s never too late to perform this technique at any stage of an attack, and that even includes the option of reaching down if he’s on top of you, but it is easiest to do when the testicles are exposed and closest to you where you can grab hold of them. I’ve actually met several women in my life who have fought off their attackers in this way and one did it when her attacker was on top of her and raping her at the point he lost control. Don’t ever hold back. Some women scream while they are doing this, and some women think of a loved one being harmed to help overcome any bad feelings of hurting someone else even if they are being hurt themselves. Do whatever you have to do if you feel it helps.

If done properly, and done with enough force, this technique can even lead to the testicles rupturing. It’s actually easier to do than most women believe, and just about all of us have the capability to injure an attackers testicles in this way – whether we are young girls still of school age, or whether we are great grandmothers. We, as women have no part of our bodies as vulnerable as a mans testicles. After all, if you think about it testicles are just small objects of extreme vulnerability to pain squishiness wrapped in a delicate layer of skin which offers them no protection at all from this kind of counterattack by a woman. Most importantly, this fact holds true no matter what size your attacker is, nor how strong he is. And no matter how angry he is, and how much he’s threatened what he’s going to do to you, he’s going to drop. Don’t let anyone (usually men who are very uncomfortable with thoughts of women beating them in combat) try to convince you otherwise.

I once worked with a group of Somali women who informed me that grandmothers, mothers, and daughters between generations shared this powerful method of fighting off men. They even have a name for it in Somalia and they call the move “Qworegoys”. They were surprised that women in the West didn’t seem to share this information as much as they expected them to, and even more surprised that most women didn’t even seem aware of this technique.

I know that this advice would have been a difficult read for many women, but our lives are worth far more than a rapists testicles and we should be prepared to do whatever it takes to get away to safety. Please help to share this advice with as many other women and girls as far and wide as possible in any way you can help. It could one day be a life saver.



There is also a youtube audio clip in which a woman explains how she fought off a man who attacked her within her home by grabbing and squeezing his testicles and holding on to them until she got the upper hand. What's so amazing about this is that she was only 14 years old when she did it. What an amazing woman :dance2:

I think that it's really good to hear how it everything turned out in the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTErtfxb7GE

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Re: Women's self defense

Postby Sonic# » Fri Jan 27, 9:41 2017

I have a specific point of curiosity. Reading about "Qworegoys" set off a couple of alarm bells in my head.

I once worked with a group of Somali women who informed me that grandmothers, mothers, and daughters between generations shared this powerful method of fighting off men. They even have a name for it in Somalia and they call the move “Qworegoys”. They were surprised that women in the West didn’t seem to share this information as much as they expected them to, and even more surprised that most women didn’t even seem aware of this technique.


There's a kind of exoticizing narrative here. Well-traveled woman uses the way Somali women talk about self-defense to bolster the credibility of her technique, including the idea that this is something "women in the West" should adopt. Her appeal to credibility using another culture's modes of self-defense seemed clear; I didn't know whether such a thing existed, or how I would find more information on it outside of her. So I searched for "qworegoys" and took a left at the Urban Dictionary.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali uses it in her 2008 book Infidel. She is a Somali woman describing her life experiences and what her grandmother had told her. That's enough to bear out the existence of the technique. Nothing before and only two books the same year or after use that term.

My next step is to determine the provenance of that extended quote. Who wrote it? Why does it feel like internet copypasta? For one, this is almost certainly a transliteration of a term from another language. There are several ways to transliterate terms (see Quran v Koran), and especially for less common terms, I'd expect the spelling to differ a bit: qworegois? quoregoys? kuregois? But no. The spelling is the same.

Furthermore, all the instances of that excerpt seem to come from 2015 or 2016, 5 or 6 years later than the book. They seem to be in response to posts or articles like this describing how travel women should encounter dangers. Its later date makes plagiarism one possibility. So I tried turning the date of my search back further and further. Even on the earliest articles from 2011 or 2013, the copied posts were from 2015 and from 2016.

The name of the poster was, unwaveringly, H-A-B. I lucked into an earlier version of this post in response to one article, and it mentioned the testicle-grabbing technique but not the Somali anecdote. I can't find an earlier version, so this seems like an early draft from early 2015. That doesn't contradict the idea that "qworegoys" was a later addition, a gambit to add a bit more credibility to the move.

I'll stop there. What I just did is arguably obsessive. I have some evidence "qworegoys" was copied but no hard proof of it. And the core of this emphasizes persistence in defense and overcoming inhibitions, topics two other posters have more usefully covered. At the same time, that quote felt sensationalist, and certainly its spread by "H-A-B" reflects a determination to spread it on any blog or article discussing solo women travelers or women's self-defense. So I'd take it with an appropriate grain of salt.

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Re: Women's self defense

Postby rowan » Fri Jan 27, 10:37 2017

I am going to note that generally kicking testicles is not an effective self defense mechanism, as it only works about half the time (the other half it just makes them madder). I know kicking is not what was mentioned there but generally you're not going to have an opportunity to grab like that either.

Go for the knees (sideways, the way they're not supposed to bend) if you can, clap the ears (both at the same time, I also think this is a hard thing to accomplish), and otherwise eyes, nose, throat. The latter two can kill someone so are less good because then you could wind up in bad legal trouble but do it if it's what your opportunity is.
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Re: Women's self defense

Postby Enigma » Fri Jan 27, 17:03 2017

I'd imagine grabbing someone's balls would be nearly impossible through jeans..
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Re: Women's self defense

Postby Nech » Sun Jan 29, 13:17 2017

Enigma wrote:I'd imagine grabbing someone's balls would be nearly impossible through jeans..


Especially skinny jeans. Can grab anything. :(
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Re: Women's self defense

Postby Kittysu » Sat Feb 4, 14:03 2017

Sonic# wrote:What I just did is arguably obsessive


I think that it was really interesting what you did Sonic#. I don't look on that kind of "obsession" as a bad thing. It demonstrates a very sharp inquisitive mind. Thank you for investigating further.

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Re: Women's self defense

Postby Kittysu » Sat Feb 4, 14:15 2017

rowan wrote:I know kicking is not what was mentioned there but generally you're not going to have an opportunity to grab like that either.


I agree that it could be a difficult to get the opportunity to grab, especially if trousers are worn.

I suppose that it could be very effective if clothing is removed, for example at some stage during a sex attack.

I found an article about a woman named Curtescine Lloyd who successfully used this technique against her attacker after he'd removed his trousers. I stopped reading though after I read her say "He stuck that thing in my face, and it sticking straight out. So I grabbed it with my right hand and twisted as hard as I could. Then I noticed them things hanging down, and grabbed them with my left hand and squeezed as hard as I could, and twisted them the opposite direction." I didn't have to read any further! :dieslaughing:

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Re: Women's self defense

Postby Kittysu » Sat Feb 4, 14:20 2017

Enigma wrote:I'd imagine grabbing someone's balls would be nearly impossible through jeans..


I'd have to agree that jeans would make it nearly impossible to grab balls. I suppose the "Curtescine Lloyd approach" would work the best (please see my reply to rowan above for details).

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Re: Women's self defense

Postby Sonic# » Sat Feb 4, 14:22 2017

^ Would you consolidate replies into one post in the future? It makes things easier to read/follow.

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Re: Women's self defense

Postby Kittysu » Sat Feb 4, 14:38 2017

Sonic# wrote:^ Would you consolidate replies into one post in the future? It makes things easier to read/follow.


Yes I will Sonic#. Sorry about that. I've been away for some time and I didn't see so many replies at first, but then I felt that I should reply to everyone who replied to me. Multiple replies in one post would have been a much better approach. Thank you.


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