Women only companies. A disaster!

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Pikachu
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Women only companies. A disaster!

Postby Pikachu » Tue Feb 14, 5:21 2017

Now that I've got your attention, check out these stories:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/artic ... lict-.html

and

https://clarissasblog.com/2014/05/14/i- ... ire-women/

Incidentally, I have not had a single male employee quit with no plan in mind

Why were these women so incapable of functioning in the absence of men? To the point where a feminist is saying she doesn't want to hire women anymore? That must be a big shattering to her worldview. One might even call it triggering.

On the other hand, there is a transgender owner who hired mostly transwomen for her diner, and apparently they get along fine. So there may be something in male socialization that carries over to transwomen that allows them to function effectively as a unit.

Reading things like this, if i were in the position of hiring power, I couldn't in good conscience hire more than the government sanctioned minimum of women.

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felipefs

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Re: Women only companies. A disaster!

Postby felipefs » Tue Feb 14, 6:00 2017

Reading these stories, if they are real (because, to be honest one seems like gossip site and the other is blogspot) it just seems to me that the boss hired based solely on gender instead of professionalism. Business is business, you don't put someone under the position of employee, which you will give orders, and think there will be a sense of friendship just because of an accord made in a job interview.
I am also yet to have a single male employee come to my office to give me dirt on a co-worker or share an awkward gossip-like story. My female employees though? Every. single. one.

When men talk bad, they talk bad about other men and with men. Men don't talk bad about other men to a woman, because they want to keep their image cool.

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Sonic#
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Re: Women only companies. A disaster!

Postby Sonic# » Tue Feb 14, 9:48 2017

Anecdotes be crazy, y'all.

I don't find I can say much about "male socialization" versus the unstated but implied "female socialization" that would explain these two situations but not explain all the situations where groups of men fall apart or where groups of women cooperate well.

For example, I'm not sure I can trust Samantha Brick's descriptions of why they fell apart. She's pretty focused on describing these elements in gendered terms:
It was an idealistic vision swiftly shattered by the nightmare reality: constant bitchiness, surging hormones, unchecked emotion, attention-seeking and fashion rivalry so fierce it tore my staff apart.


Hormones? That seems like a colloquial way of describing something else; I don't think she had any actual hormonal readings. Bitchiness? I've found no gender has a monopoly on bad attitude. Unchecked emotion? Like some man's never gotten angry in a board room. As I read her article, I had these reactions again and again: cut through the thin layer of gender socialization and she's describing any failing business. Cliques? Let's call those factions. She describes people coming in late and similarly lax procedures, things any workplace can suffer from sometimes. She describes people getting angry without apology - something I've also seen from men in meetings. Gossip? Men gossip all the time.

Did she do anything to correct it? No:
In hindsight, I can see I should have been more strict. My idealism was my downfall because I tried to see the best in people - I was convinced they would behave as they were treated, so I treated everyone kindly.

It sounds like a crisis of leadership and a clash of personalities. There's nothing necessarily gendered about either of those things, so her conclusion that it must've been the gender more than the particular team or her leadership is a hasty generalization. She hasn't done the work to exclude herself or the team from the process of understanding what happened, or to differentiate this from other failing businesses.

The most gendered thing I could say about this is that it illustrates that all-female workforces are not necessarily an ideal arrangement or a total solution. That's not really surprising.

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Re: Women only companies. A disaster!

Postby Taurwen » Wed Feb 15, 7:51 2017

That's an article about shitty leadership nothing more. I work in a department that's all women (it just happened that way), my counterparts at other locations (that I have to work with) also happen to be women. We all work just fine.
In fact, come to think of it the other department heads we work with closely are women as is our general location manager.

I've worked other jobs where the male owners of the business were very similar to the person in that article, and were also so astounded at how unprofessional everyone was and the gall of their employees when it came to taking advantage of their work situation (hint, both women and men took advantages of the situation). And I've never worked with women who rivalled the male gossips I've worked with. Of course, they never called themselves gossips, but same thing.

It's all personality and environment, I've never noticed gender made much difference with workers. At least not in a way that mattered more than a myriad of other issues that arise in work situations.

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Re: Women only companies. A disaster!

Postby Enigma » Wed Feb 15, 10:29 2017

This is ridiculous. My office is 95% women and it's expanding. No one has been murdered yet. Don't blame shitty leadership on gender.
"Human beings are amazing... we might be horrible, horrible, but we're wonderful too. Otherwise, why go on?"

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Re: Women only companies. A disaster!

Postby rinn » Mon Feb 20, 13:18 2017

felipefs wrote:
I am also yet to have a single male employee come to my office to give me dirt on a co-worker or share an awkward gossip-like story. My female employees though? Every. single. one.

When men talk bad, they talk bad about other men and with men. Men don't talk bad about other men to a woman, because they want to keep their image cool.


I didn't even read the articles, but this part of the discussion caught my eye.

sharing own personal experience here: I currently work for a male-dominated company. to prove my point: I'm the only female in my department. so there are lots of guys that talk to each other, and let me tell you: they gossip *more* than what I've seen from females in the retail stores I've worked at. and I've heard some trash talk and crazy stories about men coming from other men. so, moral of the story here is, men can gossip just as often, if not more than women.

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Re: Women only companies. A disaster!

Postby tomokun » Mon Feb 20, 15:30 2017

I didn't read the articles either because I employ 30+ people, and I honestly couldn't tell you how many are men, women, or transgender.

All I know is work gets done, disputes get settled quickly and happen rarely, and unprofessional people who put more energy into drama than actually working don't last long. I specifically structured my entire business to be performance based, because I want people to be paid fairly for doing great work consistently. I think as far as long-term AWESOME employees go, I've got one of each (male, female, trans), and my headaches have come from both dudes and chicks, and are always accompanied by the person having a major chip on their shoulder about how awesome they are.

I don't get along well with people that work for me, but get offended when I tell them to do things my way. Guys tend to be a little more "assertive" until I remind them it's my company, and gals tend to be more "huffy"... but aholes are aholes. So, maybe gender causes aholes that don't work for me to express their assholishness differently, but the fact is that assholes don't last long in my company no matter HOW they choose to express themselves.

So yeah, I'd say this sounds like shitty leadership. Pissed off employees who thought they could do a better job than their boss until they found out that it's a lot harder than it looks, because there aren't many differences between adults and teenagers when it comes to the work place.

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Re: Women only companies. A disaster!

Postby Aum » Mon Feb 20, 15:43 2017

I prefer to work in equal sexed spaces. Mostly men or mostly women drives me crazy. The sexes each have their unique brand of fucked upness.
The artist's job is not to succumb to despair, but to find an antidote to the emptiness of existence. -W.A.

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Re: Women only companies. A disaster!

Postby Bork » Sat Feb 25, 20:01 2017

This subject line sounds like a DT tweet.
Bork is too lazy to bother thinking up a witty signature. :polarbear:

Taurwen
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Re: Women only companies. A disaster!

Postby Taurwen » Sun Feb 26, 10:15 2017

Bork wrote:This subject line sounds like a DT tweet.


I feel like DT is more concise "Company: Women Only! Disaster!"

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Re: Women only companies. A disaster!

Postby Bork » Sun Feb 26, 19:21 2017

Taurwen wrote:
Bork wrote:This subject line sounds like a DT tweet.


I feel like DT is more concise "Company: Women Only! Disaster!"



But he also tries to pack as much negativity into a tweet as possible. How about: "These (failed, so sad!) women only companies. Disaster!"
Bork is too lazy to bother thinking up a witty signature. :polarbear:

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Re: Women only companies. A disaster!

Postby space_guy » Thu Mar 9, 17:19 2017

The story told in the first article seemed like a chiché in a certain type of comedy films. It certainly doesn't represent what happens in most environments in which there are only women or women are the majority. And sometimes a few bad individuals are sufficient to create a bad environment, affecting negatively other people's behaviour. The second article I couldn't read, it was taking a lot of time to open.

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Re: Women only companies. A disaster!

Postby Taurwen » Fri Mar 10, 9:26 2017

I just read the second blog post. Switch the genders and you have my work experience with men. I think if she's having so much trouble with women I suggest she start telling them they are acting unprofessional. I've never had a working relationship with a woman I didn't like that wasn't just a working relationship. If a man disliked me however if was a constant battle.
Just because I have several experiences with man-babies doesn't tell me that all men are man-babies though. People are just people after all.


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