The Taylor Swift Nicki Minaj thing

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The Taylor Swift Nicki Minaj thing

Post by spacefem » Fri Jul 24, 6:24 2015

Dang it sorry people, here I go again bringing up celebrity feminism when I really do not think it represents the feminist movement and it's not very responsible to spend energy thinking about what popular singers are up to. I don't feel good about this.

BUT I think it's a teachable moment.

An article if you want:
http://www.vox.com/2015/7/21/9012179/ta ... aj-twitter

The tweets that started it all:
If your video celebrates women with very slim bodies, you will be nominated for vid of the year - @NICKIMINAJ
I've done nothing but love & support you. It's unlike you to pit women against each other. Maybe one of the men took your slot.. - @taylorswift13
My version: remember in high school, every once in a while there'd be a big "unity" kind of assembly where the teachers pull everybody together and sing kumbaya and talk about anti-bullying and how we should be nice to each other?

And then they richest, blondest girl in school who buys all her clothes at the mall stands up to say "I agree and totally support togetherness! It's so sad when girls are mean to each other!" - but you still remember when her friends called you an "fugly thing" when you were in the third grade, she's had a date for every dance of every year, she has NOT even tried to befriend the debate club kid who you all learned was cutting herself but you at least lended the poor girl a pencil and now this popular girl is saying that YOU should have done more?

that's kinda how taylor swift comes off telling nicki minaj "hey sis, we're in this together!"

remember when the skinny white blond girl who got a recording contract at 14 is just ONE OF US, guys.

Image

Teachable moment is this: A woman of color who worked her ass off until finally getting a hit record in her late 20s should be listened to. Not told "oh come one we all understand, we're all the same, we're all in it together." Yeah sure NOW we're in it together since she's rich and famous. But we weren't always, still aren't, don't pretend you are, it's not cool. It's belittling. And I too may be white, and may say stupid white privilege things sometimes, but that doesn't stop me from the face palm whenever some other white celebrity feminist does it. I learned, you too can learn Taylor.

Just repeat after me: "I've got it good and I will use my privilege to help you."

See? Not so hard.
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Re: The Taylor Swift Nicki Minaj thing

Post by Zeph » Fri Jul 24, 9:48 2015

Yes, women in Taylor Swift's videos are waif. Women in Nicki Minaj's videos have popping tits and small waists atop ample, perfectly round asses. Neither should be criticizing one another.

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Re: The Taylor Swift Nicki Minaj thing

Post by monk » Fri Jul 24, 15:35 2015

The best parts to Nicki's song belonged to Sir-Mix-Alot.
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Re: The Taylor Swift Nicki Minaj thing

Post by Gnarlbanya » Fri Jul 24, 16:50 2015

Definitely a teachable moment! I think this is a good example of how some (generally younger) women are confused by the concept of feminism - that being a feminist somehow means that you are duty-bound to always support all women in every situation. Ridiculous notion - women can be just as capable of sexist behaviour as men can (equal opportunity sexism). In cases like this it becomes particularly confusing because if you support one woman (Taylor Swift) you end up undermining the broader feminist point that Minaj was trying to make. So why should you support an individual over making a broader cultural point that's in support of all women? Anyway, I was happy to read that TS later apologised and stated she had misunderstood.

I have much love for Sir Mixalot, but thought Minaj's video was kinda awesome. Haven't seen any of the others because I live under a rock, so it was kind of refreshing to learn about a current celebrity feud.

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Re: The Taylor Swift Nicki Minaj thing

Post by Storage and Disposal » Fri Jul 24, 17:55 2015

One, I think Nicki Minaj gets too much recognition. Sure, she's talented like the next celebrity, but only marginally. Doesn't she already have 80 awards or something like that?

Two, Rihanna won in 2012, Beyonce in 2009, Rihanna in 2007, OutKast in 2004, Missy Elliott in 2003. Beyonce and Kendrick Lamar are nominated this year, it's not exactly a whites only award. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't even seen Nicki Minaj mention race in all this. It seems like it could very well be solely about body image. Also, Swift's video is more interesting. They're both pretty dumb though, don't get me wrong.

Three, Minaj is skinny.

Four, how is the MTV Video Music Awards still relevant? Shouldn't that have died out like 15 years ago?

Five, yeah. Taylor Swift is dumb and is seeping with ignorance of her own privilege. It wasn't really about her.
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Re: The Taylor Swift Nicki Minaj thing

Post by AndrewZealand » Fri Jul 24, 20:53 2015

Feminist or not, neither Taylor nor Nicki have impressed me much with anything they've said or did. I suppose I'm ignorant as most of the music I listen to is 20-50 years old, but then again maybe there's a reason why.

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Re: The Taylor Swift Nicki Minaj thing

Post by Karina » Fri Jul 24, 21:34 2015

Taylor Swift and Nicki Minaj are two sides of the same coin. One constantly writes songs about how "boys" have disappointed her, teaching women that they're only valued if they are in a relationship. While the other has songs about body parts, reducing women to sexual objects. Aside from differences in race and class, the only thing they can teach other is the lack of progress that pop culture has made in terms of gender representation.

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Re: The Taylor Swift Nicki Minaj thing

Post by Enigma » Fri Jul 24, 21:39 2015

I haven't been following this at all but from what I gathered from skimming posts on it around the internet it seems like they disagreed on something, Taylor learned something, apologized, and moved on. As far as I know they also had a phone conversation, cleared things up and aren't mad at each other. Then of course the media's like it's a feud!! Because women disagreed with each other.

I'm no fan of either of their music but I disagree that they're dumb. I've seen snippets of both of them saying intelligent, very feminist things and I respect both of them for that (although they both have some problematic lyrics).

https://youtu.be/5bIo8VLTUuE
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Re: The Taylor Swift Nicki Minaj thing

Post by Storage and Disposal » Sat Jul 25, 12:03 2015

That video's impressive. Admirable. I guess I meant dumb in a conceited sense; I think it's dumb to be so conceited. I don't really stand by that remark. The only things I've read about her are trending articles.

Though I didn't call Minaj dumb. Just her video.
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Re: The Taylor Swift Nicki Minaj thing

Post by Meperidine » Sat Jul 25, 18:03 2015

As for the subject of Swift's songs, I don't think she deserves more criticism for constantly whining about exes and breakups than do male pop stars who do the same thing, yet she definitely gets much more hate for it.
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Re: The Taylor Swift Nicki Minaj thing

Post by rowan » Mon Jul 27, 5:55 2015

Storage and Disposal wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't even seen Nicki Minaj mention race in all this. It seems like it could very well be solely about body image.
It could have totally been about body image, but:
1) her getting where she is today definitely would be harder because of her race
2) body shape is racially dependent and black/PoC bodies are seen as lesser

So whether or not she meant it as just a body image thing, the intersections of power and race and sexism when it comes to discussing things like this are completely relevant.
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Re: The Taylor Swift Nicki Minaj thing

Post by Storage and Disposal » Mon Jul 27, 7:39 2015

Yeah, those two things are true, but it still doesn't seem relevant to me. Her statements didn't involve her climb to fame. They didn't involve anything but this specific award. She's won multiple VMA's, but has yet to be nominated for video of the year yet. It's not even about the VMA's as a whole, but this specific award and it's not even about winning it. This specific award has been won numerous times by people of color and two out of the five people nominated this year are people of color including Beyonce's video where she dances around in her underwear. When people of color aren't overlooked for something, then someone of color complains about being overlooked because of something else and white people scream, "racism," it sounds like reverse racism to me. If she mentioned at all that it's a race issue, then I'd be more inclined to buy it.
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Re: The Taylor Swift Nicki Minaj thing

Post by Zeph » Mon Jul 27, 11:02 2015

This isn't the first time that Taylor Swift has been singled out publicly by a member of the hip hop community. We all remember Kanye interrupting her on stage while Beyonce gleamed and mouthed, "Thank you!".

I get that TS reminds us of those thin, blonde, pretty, priveleged girls from our high school. But she's not doing anything wrong here. The dancers in her videos are mostly white and thin. The dancers in Nicki's videos are mostly women of color but also conform to a near-impossible standard of beauty: thin with a huge chest and butt, exaggerated "feminine" features. That's the way the entertainment industry crumbles.

I think that Nicki feels that she deserves this award because her videos are so popular on YouTube. They're popular because they are sexually provocative and jiggling asses are hypnotic :drool:

It's just incredibly shitty to tell someone that they don't deserve the recognition they receive, whether it be a coworker who got promoted or a pop singer for whom people vote during award season.

As long as I'm super off-topic: I liked Kendrick Lamar's video the best.

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Re: The Taylor Swift Nicki Minaj thing

Post by rowan » Mon Jul 27, 17:06 2015

Reverse racism isn't a thing. All racism supports white supremacy in some way or another.
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Re: The Taylor Swift Nicki Minaj thing

Post by Aum » Mon Jul 27, 23:54 2015

Pot meet kettle.

That's the first thing I think of when I see one celeb going after another, especially when they're both at the pinnacle of privilege.

And they're both plugged into an industry that's pimping them out, an industry that doesn't really give a crap about them as long as they keep doing what they're told. These faux twitter battles are for publicity.
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Re: The Taylor Swift Nicki Minaj thing

Post by minervyx » Wed Aug 19, 15:32 2015

Whenever I see magazines and blogs picturing them in a feud, it's always Taylor Swift smiling gracefully in a beautiful dress and Nicki Minaj portrayed as a crazed hood-rat. It's racial.

Not to say that Nicki's standards of beauty are much better than Taylor's, but Taylor was in the wrong for starting the feud.

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Re: The Taylor Swift Nicki Minaj thing

Post by Nerd1987 » Tue Aug 25, 0:44 2015

in niki's video asses shook hundreds of times, niki played with her friend's asses, and sprayed whipped cream on her breasts. She also crawled on her knees seductively to drake. No judgement. I'm a guy and I thought it was a hot video. I'm not sure I would feel comfortable being responsible for giving it any awards outside of a porn award.

Niki has her market and maybe this is what we want. I respect both individuals for playing their cards right to where they are rich and famous. How many of us can say that we have done that?

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Re: The Taylor Swift Nicki Minaj thing

Post by Zeph » Tue Aug 25, 2:04 2015

I actually read an article about this feud and it turns out that Nicki wrote a tweet that she says was not directed at Taylor, and Taylor totally didn't have to respond but she did. Maybe it's because she grew up in the entertainment industry and takes everything very seriously. It seems to be a pattern.

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Re: The Taylor Swift Nicki Minaj thing

Post by spacefem » Sun Nov 8, 16:44 2015

unlocking because every 3-4 months, storage seeks redemption...
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Re: The Taylor Swift Nicki Minaj thing

Post by Storage and Disposal » Sun Nov 8, 21:18 2015

Thank you!
rowan wrote:Reverse racism isn't a thing. All racism supports white supremacy in some way or another.
When I said that, I was using a less popular meaning which amounts to benevolent racism (still racism) against a minority, not racism against white people. It was a reference to a really bad movie no one should see starring Rob Schneider, but I digress.
"He weeps for he has but one small tongue with which to taste an entire world." - Dr. Mungmung

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