Masculine crossdresser reaction.

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Masculine crossdresser reaction.

Post by Pikachu » Fri Dec 29, 22:52 2017

Why is it that a man who openly crossdresses, or a transwoman, with clear masculine traits like a large build, hairy legs, manly facial features etc, invokes such a visceral reaction? More so than a very feminine crossdresser or transwoman, who has had a change in privilege as well.

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Re: Masculine crossdresser reaction.

Post by Plotthickens » Sun Dec 31, 9:09 2017

Because femaleness is degraded: masculinity is lauded. For someone who is obviously male to put on female traits or indicators is for the powerful to voluntarily be debased. The fear is that weakness in a man may show weakness in the ruling sex. This is the worst transgression a man can commit.

Examples that support this rule: female homosexuals are fetishized, male homosexuals are derided and sometimes beaten/killed. Of male homosexuals, the man who takes the "female" role in the sex act most feared by homophobics is most likely to be degraded, beaten, or killed. Males who exhibit female tendencies are derided. Those tendencies are frequently: more than the standard two emotions (anger, dispassion), crying, loving, caring, reading, creating, etc.

The only exceptions to this rule are when the transgression is both temporary and committed for a greater good, such as a man happily wearing a princess dress to a movie so his daughter can happily wear her princess dress.

Seriously, the limited role that men are allowed ("Don't be a girl") is shit. That patriarchal bullshit has got to go.
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Re: Masculine crossdresser reaction.

Post by Pikachu » Sun Dec 31, 12:20 2017

The answer of why men are restricted to a limited role. My theory;

Instinctively, and for good reason, the solitary male is seen as physically and sexually threatening far beyond what women are. Very few would disagree with that. Especially men that show signifiers of high testosterone. body hair, large build, large brow, jawline etc. Similar things are seen throughout nature, with lone male lions and other species approaching a collective. The "drifter" is turned away and feared. Throughout history, its outsider males who have invaded other societies.

A man that conforms to social rules is saying on many levels that he is not an outsider and not to be feared as a threat. The gangbanger who embraces "thug life", doesn't matter if he's in an actual gang or not, or is actually violent or not, the leather clad biker, the heavily tatooed pierced up man, these non conformists are feared in mainstream society as violent or moral threats.

In a similar way, the crossdresser is a non conformist, therefore perceived as a solitary or outsider male, and therefore a threat. But unlike the previous examples, this intersects with the sexualization of femininity, so is seen as a sexual threat, which is why they're seen as creepy. I argue that it's because society knows they are not really weak, that they carry this visceral reaction as a threat to be stamped out or shunned. Whereas a more feminine crossdresser, is seen as weak with lower agency, and therefore lower in potential for malevolence.

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Re: Masculine crossdresser reaction.

Post by Plotthickens » Sun Dec 31, 12:34 2017

Interesting theory. I don't see crossdressers as "creepy". You do?
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Re: Masculine crossdresser reaction.

Post by Pikachu » Sun Dec 31, 12:53 2017

Plotthickens wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 12:34 2017
Interesting theory. I don't see crossdressers as "creepy". You do?
No.

We're talking about society at large. Through I'd be lying if I said there isn't an initial, subconscious negative feeling on seeing a masculine crossdresser, but that gets quickly overrided by reason. A conditioned response or an instinctive. Difficult to say.

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Re: Masculine crossdresser reaction.

Post by Plotthickens » Tue Jan 2, 1:10 2018

if you don't have these feelings about crossdressers, how do you know "society at large" does?
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Re: Masculine crossdresser reaction.

Post by Pikachu » Tue Jan 2, 21:21 2018

Plotthickens wrote:
Tue Jan 2, 1:10 2018
if you don't have these feelings about crossdressers, how do you know "society at large" does?
But I do on a subconscious level. I'm able to acknowledge my internalized biases. As I said.

Through I'd be lying if I said there isn't an initial, subconscious negative feeling on seeing a masculine crossdresser, but that gets quickly overrided by reason. A conditioned response or an instinctive.

However what I think has nothing to do with what society at large thinks. That comes from a combination of witnessing overt aggression toward these people in real life and listening to the trans community online and in real life.

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Re: Masculine crossdresser reaction.

Post by Rainbow Dolphins » Wed Jan 3, 9:03 2018

I would argue that we are a society of people, not lions, and if feeling "threatened" by large hairy men is an instinct (and I'm not agreeing that it is) we as people should be able to recondition ourselves. I do agree that outsiders are viewed with disdain and fear, and we all need to be part of the solution to that.
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Re: Masculine crossdresser reaction.

Post by rowan » Wed Jan 3, 10:18 2018

I am all in favor of more men in skirts.
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Re: Masculine crossdresser reaction.

Post by Patterby » Thu Feb 1, 14:50 2018

Well I don't think they'd all look good in them. I'd never do it except in the bedroom (I'd have to be a tad coerced to wear one elsewhere), and of course I have to shave my leghair. Beyond that, my boo probably wouldn't look good in one. Also, they aren't exactly functional. I'm not working in a skirt (Although I'm a low level worker).
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Re: Masculine crossdresser reaction.

Post by rowan » Thu Feb 1, 15:15 2018

Eh they can be very functional, depending. You can even swordfight in them! Also I don't shave when I wear skirts. It's ok not to.
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Re: Masculine crossdresser reaction.

Post by Patterby » Thu Feb 1, 15:29 2018

I'm physically male DX. I am not wearing a skirt for anyone without shaving XD.
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Re: Masculine crossdresser reaction.

Post by Aum » Fri Feb 2, 0:17 2018

It used to evoke a reaction in me, but then I got more acquainted with queer culture and now it doesn't bother me. I'm not a big Burning Man person but I have been to some events and the most hetero men wear skirts, dresses, tutus, you name it. At the end of the day it's just another piece of clothing. Some men look great in dresses while others... I wonder what they are thinking. Like, you want to wear that spaghetti strap dress with those huge, hairy over-built gym shoulders of yours??? That's not because I'm a bigot, it's because I have fashion sense, unlike some people.

The same thing happened when I first got exposed (no pun intended) to nude beach culture on the west coast. It took me a long time before I was willing to take my clothes off. And now? I don't care who is getting dressed around me, man or woman or _______. The human body and clothing configurations just don't shock me anymore. It's all be done and re-done and overdone.

It's shocking to the eye because you're just not used to it. If you saw it every day you would have a more critical eye about it, or just not care.
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Re: Masculine crossdresser reaction.

Post by Plotthickens » Fri Feb 2, 0:21 2018

I've fancied no few folks with unbifurcated knee-length clothings who had hairy legs. Rawr.
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Re: Masculine crossdresser reaction.

Post by DarkOne » Fri Feb 2, 5:41 2018

Pikachu wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 22:52 2017
Why is it that a man who openly crossdresses, or a transwoman, with clear masculine traits like a large build, hairy legs, manly facial features etc, invokes such a visceral reaction? More so than a very feminine crossdresser or transwoman, who has had a change in privilege as well.
Could it be as simple as "you instinctively react to what is foreign or unknown"? Any sight that is not normal will draw more attention, and a more alert reaction, since you don't have a programmed response. The farther away from the norm, the stronger the reaction. Until you process the new visual, understand it, and decide it is not a threat (physically, morally, or whatever), you will be on alert. The feminine cross dresser conforms to the norm more closely than the burly cross dresser, and thus elicits a bigger reaction. And a burly cross dresser elicits bigger reactions in Wyoming than he does in Miami, as a bad example. :P Hell, even the most open minded, tolerant people might be academically curious when they encounter a form of self-expression through fashion with which they are not familiar. So, prejudice aside, I'm inclined to think "we react to that to which we are not accustomed". Large build, hairy-legged cross-dressers are not that common a sight where I live.
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Re: Masculine crossdresser reaction.

Post by geldofc » Sun Feb 11, 1:35 2018

Hairy legs and faces are cool as fuck. Sort of derail time but I periodically grow out my body hair, not as a consciously feminist thing but as an obsessive thing where I feel like it's purifying or something, and then shave it off. Right now my legs and armpits are the hairiest they can be but I will never have actual hairy cool legs no matter how hard I try. It will always be crappy blond and sparse. ;_; My armpit hair has actually darkened from my early 20s and used to be very red though. :O
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