Studies That Prove Link Between Autism and Vaccines

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tomokun
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Studies That Prove Link Between Autism and Vaccines

Post by tomokun » Wed Jun 28, 11:41 2017


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Sonic#
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Re: Studies That Prove Link Between Autism and Vaccines

Post by Sonic# » Wed Jun 28, 15:12 2017

The appearance of a list of links may seem daunting, but I'm virtually convinced it's a performance piece. Anti-vaxxers bother me to no end, so I'll try to help out by listing a few reasons why.

1. The administration of vaccines with thiomersal, a preservative. Anti-vax people see the "Hg" in the chemical composition and panic about mercury exposure, though there's insufficient evidence for harm. Also, it has been effectively phased out for any vaccine a child might get in the USA or EU. The move was a precaution done in the late 1990s and early 2000s when not as much was known about the compound, but ironically the precautionary move makes anti-vax people think it was in reaction to evidence of harm.

2. David Geier and Mark Geier. Both of them are frequently authors of so-called studies like the first link. Mark Geier has lost his medical license in every state that he held it due to questionable ant harmful treatments for autism. Mark Geier has had the American Academy of Pediatrics review an article of his as being unreliable and mixing up scientific terminology. David Geier only has a BA in biology. Other authors I checked had issues of being out-of-field, but I don't have the time to do that work for you. :P

3. Peer review? Some of these don't appear to be peer-reviewed, or if they are peer-reviewed, the journals may have a low impact factor. This means they're infrequently read and cited, and so basically fly under the radar of scrutiny or earn derision without enough of a paper trail. A commentary on the article "Methodological issues and evidence of malfeasance in research purporting to show thimerosal in vaccines is safe" discusses some of these issues.

4. Who they cite and how they cite. I'm out of time, but one thing that this group of articles may do is selectively cite each other to give the appearance of a consensus, only citing research contrary to their findings in order to give the appearance of challenging it. When the authors tend to be the same discredited people with the same obscure credentials, that raises eyebrows.

There are probably more. If you are inclined, this looks like a pretty detailed and verifiable explanation of why these don't hold water.

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Re: Studies That Prove Link Between Autism and Vaccines

Post by melsbells » Sat Jul 1, 7:16 2017

I didn't look through all of these, and don't have much insight when looking at methods, but a few that I did look at didn't make the claim that vaccines caused autism. A couple concluded that a closer study was warranted due to inconclusive data. A couple couple concluded that studies concluding there was no connection had flaws. One even concluded that the benefits of vaccinations outweighed any potential risk of Autism. How did that one get in there, did I misread? As Sonic pointed out, a big complaint seemed to be against thiomersal, which isn't even used in MMR or polio vaccinations because it would kill the live MMR and polio cells. I suppose polio hasn't been vaccinated against in the U.S. for some time but MMR is certainly on the list that anti-vaxers are concerned about.

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Re: Studies That Prove Link Between Autism and Vaccines

Post by tomokun » Tue Jul 11, 8:51 2017

Sonic, Melsbells - you rock. Sorry for the delay in replying, I got caught up, but your response is amazing.

I'm aggregating all of these types of responses to be easily referenced later. I'll risk thread necromancy on this one if I find any other responses like this. Anti-vaxxers bug me too. :p

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Re: Studies That Prove Link Between Autism and Vaccines

Post by Aum » Tue Jul 11, 18:20 2017

After California created the vaccine mandate for children, we have started to see more real numbers. Give it 5 more years and there will be more reliable statistics on vaccines and behavioral disorders as well as auto-immune.

The auto-immune link likely has to do with how certain vaccines are made, like ones containing fetal tissue (the chicken pox vaccine). There may be human DNA in these vaccines that the body reacts to, via the MC5 antibody. Once the antibodies are produced the body may become immune to itself. My auto-immune condition developed after I received 5 vaccines prior to visiting Asia, so I have researched this heavily. A lot of people in the AI community report similar things.

Also a little known fact is that among adults who had chicken pox as children, being around children who now have chicken pox gives them a natural immune booster against shingles. With fewer kids having full blown chicken pox, more adults are developing shingles.
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Re: Studies That Prove Link Between Autism and Vaccines

Post by Taurwen » Tue Jul 11, 19:08 2017

My sister had shingles. Approximately 4 years after she got the chicken pox (c.p. At 5, shingles at 9)

I don't really have anything else to add.

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Re: Studies That Prove Link Between Autism and Vaccines

Post by Eravial » Thu Jul 13, 21:49 2017

Aum wrote:The auto-immune link likely has to do with how certain vaccines are made, like ones containing fetal tissue (the chicken pox vaccine). There may be human DNA in these vaccines that the body reacts to, via the MC5 antibody. Once the antibodies are produced the body may become immune to itself. My auto-immune condition developed after I received 5 vaccines prior to visiting Asia, so I have researched this heavily. A lot of people in the AI community report similar things.
The term "fetal tissue" is misleading. Background: Viruses need to be grown to develop vaccines. Certain viruses are not zoonotic, so cannot be grown in nonhuman cells. We don't use HeLa cells in virus cultivation because they are not healthy human cells (they were derived from cervical cancer cells) and many viruses do not replicate in them. The cells that began the cell lines that are used in virus cultivation for vaccine development, WI-38 and MRC-5, were indeed extracted from two aborted fetuses in the 1960s. The cells from these lines that were used to grow the viruses, given the replication time of 19.5 hours, might be well over 20,000 generations from having ever existed as part of a human body. Resources abound on these, including wikipedia.

I'm not totally familiar with human immune responses to DNA fragments, but a bit of searching doesn't return much for MC5 antibodies outside of its use in protein purification methods totally separate from vaccines. This 2013 review of immune responses to DNA in Cell doesn't mention it, either. Maybe you mean proteins instead of DNA? If so, then the question is about antigen purification, I think, which I don't know very much about as it relates to vaccines.
Aum wrote: Also a little known fact is that among adults who had chicken pox as children, being around children who now have chicken pox gives them a natural immune booster against shingles. With fewer kids having full blown chicken pox, more adults are developing shingles.
This is very likely true. Background for anyone interested: The virus that causes chicken pox and shingles is a herpes virus, which means when you contract it, you may or may not have symptoms, but then the virus goes dormant inside nerve cells for the rest of your life. When there is no active outbreak for a long time, it's a waste of resources for your immune system to continue producing antibodies for it, so it tapers off. Exposure to sick kids, it's hypothesized, kicks that antibody production up again, allowing your immune system to suppress any potential shingles outbreak into late adulthood. Luckily, we now have a shingles vaccine (essentially the same as the chickenpox vaccine, but at a higher dose) so we don't have to rely on getting kids sick to boost our own immunity. Link for more info.
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Re: Studies That Prove Link Between Autism and Vaccines

Post by Ileen Kotter » Tue Jul 25, 4:12 2017

Some parents of children with ASD wonder whether a link exists between autism and vaccines. Despite these strongly held beliefs by proponents of the vaccine theory, there is no scientific proof that the MMR vaccine or any other vaccine causes autism. https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/48 ... Hypotheses

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Re: Studies That Prove Link Between Autism and Vaccines

Post by Keen » Thu Jul 27, 9:01 2017

Yep because the rise of measles and other diseases because a negligent parent won't vaccinate their kid, I would rather my kid have autism than die of a deadly disease I could have prevented. That isn't being smart that's being a bad parent

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