Why are men so ready to complain...

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lexiewalt

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Why are men so ready to complain...

Post by lexiewalt » Mon Jan 23, 6:54 2017

...when they THINK that for once they're getting a bad deal?

[Warning : maybe a touch tmi!]

The cafe in our local train station has got fed up with vandalism, especially in the toilets in the evening.
So they've re-done them to give just one stall in the Ladies, and one urinal in the Gents. Fair enough? Equality?
Well, apparently not.
School pupils use the cafe sometimes, and some boys have actually complained that the girls can do (to put it carefully) number 1s and number 2s, but the boys only number 1s!!

As the woman who runs it said "why would anyone want to do more than p at a train station cafe?"

Most importantly, it's not our "fault" that we're able to use a toilet for both functions simultaneously. Perhaps if boys and men were concerned about why we so often have to wait to even p when they don't, then we MIGHT take their complaints a bit more seriously.

I and my housemates just find the whole thing (a) stupid and (b) proof of how our own bodies are made more sensibly
(After all, we're Mark 2, they're only Mark 1 - before the improvements were made!)

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Re: Why are men so ready to complain...

Post by Taurwen » Mon Jan 23, 7:49 2017

I think that train cafe is asking for trouble lol I know what I would be tempted to do if I had to poop and there wasn't the option to do so.

In general I do agree that those with privilege are the first to start whining, but I also think if a store offers food and drinks (or just coffee really) they need to provide full service bathrooms.

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Re: Why are men so ready to complain...

Post by Sonic# » Mon Jan 23, 8:29 2017

Why not have two regular toilets, either gender-neutral or divided by gender?

It's not like anyone can control when they need to make a bowel movement.
(b) proof of how our own bodies are made more sensibly
(After all, we're Mark 2, they're only Mark 1 - before the improvements were made!)
I don't appreciate the biological essentialism going on here, even if it's an ironic twist on one of the Adam/Eve creation stories.

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Re: Why are men so ready to complain...

Post by lexiewalt » Mon Jan 23, 10:20 2017

Sorry Sonic - was a sort-of joke to finish off with.
I think there MAY still be a longstanding law that says UK railway stations have to provide toilets for each gender seperately. Also, I've learnt from the woman who runs it that one idea is to move people as quickly as they can - she says, in fun, that if we could use a urinal, she'd just provide one for the "chicks" as well. She says (and from my experience I'd go along with it) that if men are ABLE to sit down, they'd stay in there for hours!
But, more importantly there is another toilet on the station (on the other platform). It's locked at around 6.30pm. I have no idea of the provision in the men's but the women's has 2 stalls and a surprisingly modern hand drier.

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Re: Why are men so ready to complain...

Post by Sonic# » Mon Jan 23, 12:32 2017

I am glad that there are restrooms elsewhere in the station, though I'm curious about how accessible they are, and how accessibility regulations are in general.
lexiewalt wrote:She says (and from my experience I'd go along with it) that if men are ABLE to sit down, they'd stay in there for hours!
Is that because of homeless people or something else? (I'm from the US, so my context here is rather different.)

Just a side note, but there's a park in my city with public restrooms and a fancy automatic door system. They are timed to automatically open after a certain amount of time (10 or 20 minutes) even after being locked. This may be to keep people from sleeping in the restrooms or treating it as a private room, though it does lead me to wonder if anyone's ever been caught pants-down.

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Re: Why are men so ready to complain...

Post by Bork » Mon Jan 23, 13:21 2017

So wait, the men's bathroom has ONLY a urinal??? What??? That makes absolutely no sense at all. What are guys supposed to do if they have to poop? Pretty sure you can't do that in a urinal...

How in the world is having 1 stall in the women's room and 1 urinal in the men's room equality?
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Re: Why are men so ready to complain...

Post by Pikachu » Mon Jan 23, 17:16 2017

lexiewalt wrote:Sorry Sonic - was a sort-of joke to finish off with.
She says (and from my experience I'd go along with it) that if men are ABLE to sit down, they'd stay in there for hours!
Clearly you've never been to a nightclub. The line for the womens toilet is always much longer than for the mens.

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Re: Why are men so ready to complain...

Post by spacefem » Mon Jan 23, 19:36 2017

Yeah this is a little sketchy. Either gender can suffer digestive distress and NEED a toilet right now, I can understand why men would be pretty upset to run into a restroom and find that they can't use the toilet. Admitting that everybody has bodily functions = feminism.
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Re: Why are men so ready to complain...

Post by lexiewalt » Tue Jan 24, 6:28 2017

Let's be clear: we're not talking about a major railway terminus with queues for toilets, this is a tiny Cumbrian halt with few trains after 6.30 anyway.
No there aren't any homeless people (sorry if that sounds elitist, but I've never seen any).
Those cabins mentioned which open after a specific time are common in France but I don't think could be adapted within a cafe.
The comment the boss made about men sitting down and never getting up was just a reference to men taking about 10 times as long as us to poop - and if they did there wouldn't even be a toilet for another man to p in - which in a urinal takes them about half a minute.
As they do in nightclubs.
The comnent Bork made seems based on men's and women's bodies being the same. Most men poop at length in the morning and quite often don't again until the next morning. They certainly don't do both almost every time like I/we do, which is why they have urinals in the first place.
Sorry I don't mean to sound confrontational but I feel ppl are lining up against me!

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Re: Why are men so ready to complain...

Post by Nech » Tue Jan 24, 7:34 2017

lexiewalt wrote:Let's be clear: we're not talking about a major railway terminus with queues for toilets, this is a tiny Cumbrian halt with few trains after 6.30 anyway.
No there aren't any homeless people (sorry if that sounds elitist, but I've never seen any).
Those cabins mentioned which open after a specific time are common in France but I don't think could be adapted within a cafe.
The comment the boss made about men sitting down and never getting up was just a reference to men taking about 10 times as long as us to poop - and if they did there wouldn't even be a toilet for another man to p in - which in a urinal takes them about half a minute.
As they do in nightclubs.
The comnent Bork made seems based on men's and women's bodies being the same. Most men poop at length in the morning and quite often don't again until the next morning. They certainly don't do both almost every time like I/we do, which is why they have urinals in the first place.
Sorry I don't mean to sound confrontational but I feel ppl are lining up against me!
I know plenty of women where they sit down once a day, or maybe once more at lunch, to defecate and don't go every time they pee (or in one girls case, once every day or two). For decades as a man, I would never go in the morning and go every other day or so. I only bercame "regular" when I began to keep an eye on my fiber intake but even that went out the window upon my gallbladder removal. How people poo has mostly to do with diet, not how their bodies are (unless they're missing organs like me). I'd definitely use the women's bathroom over filling my drawers if I as at that train station.

It probably feels like "people are lining up against you" because there are some gross over-generalizations based on sex/pop culture norms that simply aren't true in your defense of the lack of a toilet in the men's WC. I don't think anyone wants you to feel confronted, just trying to sort that stuff out. :) :flower2:
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Re: Why are men so ready to complain...

Post by Storage and Disposal » Tue Jan 24, 10:41 2017

lexiewalt wrote: The comnent Bork made seems based on men's and women's bodies being the same. Most men poop at length in the morning and quite often don't again until the next morning. They certainly don't do both almost every time like I/we do, which is why they have urinals in the first place.
Sorry I don't mean to sound confrontational but I feel ppl are lining up against me!
Yeah, not you, personally, just what you are saying. I'd like to see a reliable source that says most men poop at length in the morning. I don't think that's accurate. heh.
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Re: Why are men so ready to complain...

Post by Sonic# » Tue Jan 24, 11:44 2017

Sorry I don't mean to sound confrontational but I feel ppl are lining up against me!
I'm not angry, if that helps. Just curious. What you're saying doesn't fit what I thought, specifically about bathroom habits.
The comment the boss made about men sitting down and never getting up was just a reference to men taking about 10 times as long as us to poop - and if they did there wouldn't even be a toilet for another man to p in - which in a urinal takes them about half a minute.
As they do in nightclubs.
The comnent Bork made seems based on men's and women's bodies being the same. Most men poop at length in the morning and quite often don't again until the next morning. They certainly don't do both almost every time like I/we do, which is why they have urinals in the first place.
I would think diet would matter more than being a man or a woman, since the intestinal tract isn't going to be radically different. On the one hand, someone with a high fiber diet can sit and poop very quickly; on the other hand someone with a low fiber diet could take many minutes. If the nugget of your claim is true (and I don't know whether it is true and to what extent it's a myth - "10 times" seems like far too much a difference, given how little time I take), there may be gender differences that result from diet, since societies sometimes encourage men and women to eat differently. (Also, at least at work, they may use the restroom break as a break. I don't know why that would be gendered, but can imagine a couple of possibilities, like men feeling entitled to take advantage of bathroom policies.)

Do women usually do both? Anatomy and physiology taught me that that's a matter of sphincters (urethral and sphinctal), not of genitalia, so for everyone the possibility of doing number 1 but not number 2 is similar, before accounting for ordinary variations in diet and body.

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Re: Why are men so ready to complain...

Post by Taurwen » Wed Jan 25, 7:56 2017

My fondest wish is that this thread devolves into people sharing their pooping habits.

Before I got pregnant I pooped once a day (normally in the morning). Then I got pregnant and pooped once a week, it wasn't fun and where ever I was if I felt the need I went for it. Pretty much cured any hesitation I had for pooping in public. Now I poop once or twice a day but on no real schedule so again, where ever whenever I feel the need I go.
I certainly don't, and never have pooped every time I go to the bathroom. And the time period I take seems to depend more on the status of my uterus than anything else (vacant, being rented out, in the middle of self cleaning, fertile, I could chart my fertility through my poop if I wanted lol) I don't know if that's because I crave different foods during my cycle though, that's totally possible.

So while my habits seem intrinsically linked to my reproductive organs I wouldn't say you can tell much just by sussing out that I have to sit down to pee.

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Re: Why are men so ready to complain...

Post by tomokun » Wed Jan 25, 12:17 2017

Taurwen wrote:My fondest wish is that this thread devolves into people sharing their pooping habits.
Wish about to be granted. :p

So, I'm a dude, and I poop regularly, so regularly you could set a watch by my bowel movements.

I take a long time pooping, but I always have. Doctors say it's because I was born with an enlarged colon, so it takes my body longer to register that I've got a deposit to make at the altar of the porcelain god. So yes, I suppose that I would match the criteria of someone who would have to poop. And let me tell you something, I'll use the ladies room to go if I have to - laws be damned. When you've got to go, you've got to go, and thanks to my size and the size of my colon, when I have to go it's... significant.

And like I said, when I'm traveling, things get wonky. So it's MORE likely that I'll have to poop if I have to go on that train, etc.

The whole thing strikes me as a bit crazy. The point of separate bathrooms for genders is privacy, and to prevent indecent or criminal behavior. If you give people a ready-made excuse to use only the women's bathroom... this seems to defeat the purpose of having separate bathrooms.

The rest of your reasoning comes off a bit... gendered. Like others have said, diet is the primary factor regarding bathroom habits, although I suppose there COULD be differences between genders related to gender norms in diet, hormonal differences, etc. But, at the end of the day, like the book says, everybody poops.

Telling men they can't poop or they'll be arrested for being peeping Tom's... that seems like something to be concerned about. I mean... is a guy going to have to NOT FLUSH in those situations, just to have some evidence that this was a medical necessity rather than an opportunity for perversion?

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Re: Why are men so ready to complain...

Post by Pikachu » Fri Jan 27, 14:03 2017

There's a breakdown of boundaries here that one would expect between strangers.
lexiewalt wrote:Sorry Sonic - was a sort-of joke to finish off with.
She says (and from my experience I'd go along with it) that if men are ABLE to sit down, they'd stay in there for hours!
See this is the sort of thing one says about their husband or son or brother or whatever close family member. Discussing the toilet habits of complete strangers like that, much less implementing it with the general public, is shockingly unprofessional. The public is not her husband who sits on the throne for hours reading sports illustrated and should not be treated or even talked about as such. The only things she need concern herself with are illegal activity or a medical emergency in there.

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Re: Why are men so ready to complain...

Post by Enigma » Fri Jan 27, 16:57 2017

Fun fact: went to a restaurant yesterday and they had four unisex rooms one of which was a urinal. Which makes a hell of a lot more sense then this.
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Re: Why are men so ready to complain...

Post by antfancier » Sat Jan 28, 10:03 2017

Enigma wrote:Fun fact: went to a restaurant yesterday and they had four unisex rooms one of which was a urinal. Which makes a hell of a lot more sense then this.
Except that doesn't make sense either because a urinal is not unisex. I mean, I guess it could be possible for a woman to pee in there - I haven't tried, but imagine it isn't easy. But I do like that they had four. I worked in a school which had four bathrooms, all with toilets. Three were unisex and one was just for women. That seems like a good idea because in my experience women take longer to pee because we have to remove our clothing more fully than than men do.

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Re: Why are men so ready to complain...

Post by lexiewalt » Mon Jan 30, 7:14 2017

That does sound weird having a urinal in a "unisex" toilet. In fact that means really there r 3 unisex ones and 1 for men which is unfair and sexist. The situation mentioned by antfancier makes sense - one of my housemates came across a similar in a cafe in Yorkshire with 1 toilet for women only and 1 for women and men.

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Re: Why are men so ready to complain...

Post by Nech » Mon Jan 30, 11:16 2017

Maybe the urinal was put in as more of an "express lane" for men/trans individuals? Still does seem a little odd to have one urinal, but not as odd as not having facilities to accommodate an entire sex's full bathroom requirements as in the original example. At least everyone can still relieve themselves.

As an aside, women can totally use urinals. From my understanding it takes a bit of practice if you're unfamiliar with yourself, but is totally doable with just as much accuracy as any man.
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Re: Why are men so ready to complain...

Post by Sonic# » Mon Jan 30, 13:57 2017

^ My partner used a men's restroom today in a situation where a grocery store had two single-person restrooms with identical features. One was labeled "Men's" and the other "Women's," but at that point nothing but the labels actually genders the restrooms.

That's what I understand unisex restrooms to do. Rather than putting people into two societally-determined but incomplete slots, they let people make the determination of what facilities they need.

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Re: Why are men so ready to complain...

Post by tomokun » Mon Jan 30, 18:56 2017

Yeah, this makes sense to me, honestly. Urinals don't take up a lot of real estate, it's just an extra, smaller hole with running water, right? If a woman has one of those pee funnels (the P-EZ I believe its called) and the stalls are occupado, bam. The only thing stopping women from using a urinal are the... practical considerations. If they could fit in an extra stall, they should, but urinals are a great second option... especially for unisex bathrooms.

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Re: Why are men so ready to complain...

Post by lexiewalt » Tue Jan 31, 6:52 2017

A urinal in a unisex bathroom? Well when I was 16 on a school trip to France and the one bathroom contained 2 urinals and 2 stalls, and boys actually used the urinals while we girls waited for the stalls - well OK that was fun. But then I was 16 - I'm not now really into unisex bathroooms with urinals in! I can't use 'em and I hope men don't want to use them while I'm there!

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Re: Why are men so ready to complain...

Post by Nech » Tue Jan 31, 7:32 2017

lexiewalt wrote:I can't use 'em and I hope men don't want to use them while I'm there!
Why would you want men specifically to not use a washroom while you're there (in the theoretical unisex public restroom)?
Where there's smoke, there's fire. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. So just shut up, and bring some water.

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Re: Why are men so ready to complain...

Post by Taurwen » Tue Jan 31, 7:37 2017

My aim goes way down when my pants are on, and I don't think I'm comfortable striping my lower body in a public bathroom just to use a urinal.
I do keep meaning to pick up the extra hardware that would make it easy though I don't relish the thought of cleaning it.

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Re: Why are men so ready to complain...

Post by Sonic# » Tue Jan 31, 8:39 2017

I'm not too comfortable with the ways urinals are arranged in multi-unit restrooms. Around here, they most often have a small divider that goes up to about 4-5 feet and about 1-2 feet out from the wall. It's enough to hide one's front from an average-height person in the next urinal. I ... I can see it all if I look even slightly in that direction, which as a matter of perspective means I always imagine other people can see it all too.

I've been in spaces (mainly stadiums) where their idea of a urinal was a trough with no dividers. That's the way my little league field did it. And perhaps my experience is colored by (as a kid) having an adult near there ask to see my penis, but having no enclosure isn't a safe idea.

If we're talking multi-unit unisex restrooms, as personal preference I'd want them all enclosed.

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