Rape culture doesn't exist

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Keen

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Rape culture doesn't exist

Post by Keen » Wed Jul 26, 15:08 2017

Rape culture doesn't exist and you can't prove it with facts, I'm any way :dance2:

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Re: Rape culture doesn't exist

Post by Enigma » Wed Jul 26, 15:13 2017

"Human beings are amazing... we might be horrible, horrible, but we're wonderful too. Otherwise, why go on?"

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Re: Rape culture doesn't exist

Post by Keen » Wed Jul 26, 15:32 2017

No no no, I don't want opinions I want real stats, I want the fbi I want bls I don't want a magazine that is overly biased, I want a reliable news source

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Re: Rape culture doesn't exist

Post by Keen » Wed Jul 26, 15:38 2017

That's like saying "Donald trump is a reliable news source, fox is reliable, CNN is reliable" they are all extremely biased and will twist stories to fit their own agenda

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Re: Rape culture doesn't exist

Post by Sonic# » Wed Jul 26, 19:04 2017

"Rape culture doesn't exist and you can't prove it with facts"

Untrue. Also, when you're dismissing reasonable sources of information without a good reason, then you're not really arguing in good faith.

"I want the fbi I want bls"

They certainly record instances of reported crimes. That doesn't seem like an apt source for studying cultural phenomena though. They'd be as poorly suited to, say, prove how colonialism works.

"That's like saying "Donald trump is a reliable news source, fox is reliable, CNN is reliable" "

CNN is pretty reliable. Certainly with CNN and even Fox, I can look at what information they're citing, evaluate the credibility of sources, and so on.

Anyway, so you're saying the European Commission, peer-reviewed journal articles, the Association of American Universities, the Washington Post, and the Kaiser Family Foundation all generate unreliable statistics? Because those are the sources in the Bustle article. You're going to have to read those sources and explain to me why they're not trustworthy, something I could do with Donald Trump's tweets.

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Re: Rape culture doesn't exist

Post by Keen » Thu Jul 27, 7:43 2017

Yea a reliable source defiantly is a known feminist forum with biased opinions, number one it even says that 13 percent says it's okay, which is a small minority, and "unwanted touching" touching could be anything as small as someone touching my shoulder. So the only thing that really would identify as "Rape culture " would be that 13 percent which mind you is a minority, and not only that but let's look at the whole "a whopping 30 something percent of Europeans think rape is sometimes okay, no that isn't what you ask, if I'm trying to fuck someone I'm not going to ask "Do I have your consent I need writing video and fingerprints that all day yes otherwise I'm raping you" what the actual fuck is that? That ruins the mood, if they don't clearly say "No." Or in some way push me off forcefully, I will take that as a yes. If you go ask specifically "Do you think rape is okay" to adults on the street, I bet you won't get even 10 percent to say yes. And "1/3 college women have been touched without consent" again, that could be anything as minor as a pat on the back. And number 4, same thing, it ruins the mood to be like "I need writing video and fingerprints to continue" it's not assault, I'm sorry but y'all are the ones normalizing rape, not us, we aren't the ones bringing it up. And the middle schooler thing, yeah people are going to say someone has a nice ass, sorry but if you don't like it tell a teacher but I bet not even 20%Of those girls told a teacher about it.
So not only is the whole thing biased, it's unclear on what they actually asked the kids, also if you are going to ask them something ask them about rape, "Do you think rape is okay" no. But no we don't do that we dodge around that question in order to not only get a twisted answer but say they approve of rape, sick.

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Re: Rape culture doesn't exist

Post by Sonic# » Thu Jul 27, 10:03 2017

I'll go by number.
1. Given that people often are around a lot of people in their lives, socialize with many, and often date at least a few people, having 13 percent of people be okay with violating someone else's bodily autonomy means that there's a lot of people getting touched without their consent.
2. If 30% of people think that consent is secondary or "ruins the mood," that's extremely troubling. Do they really think enthusiastic consent and communication ruin the mood? That gives a lot of cover for rapists to use alcohol, the absence of repeated "no's," and other excuses for denying that they've committed rape. Which ->
3. Results in a lot of cases of rape not being recognized as rape. Of course most people recognize rape to be a bad thing. At the same time, people who speak up about it are often second-guessed, challenged, and ridiculed for (a) not saying no loudly or often enough, (b) not resisting forcefully, (c) being sexual, (d) consenting to sex in other situations, and so on. Many people try to downplay violations of consent. You refer to "unwanted sexual contact" as "a pat on the back," which minimizes what sexual contact entails without any evidence for that kind of contact being a part of the survey. Summarily, while just about anyone asked will say, "Of course I don't condone rape," a lot of instances of rape and sexual harassment are nonetheless not recognized as such by many of those same people.
4. Really a combination of 2 and 3. You clearly have no idea what consent entails; you minimize the results of responses to deny the touching is a big deal. If anything, that response demonstrates that you're an apt practitioner of the denial behaviors in rape culture.

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Re: Rape culture doesn't exist

Post by Keen » Thu Jul 27, 10:54 2017

Lol No I just know that sex is sex and rape is rape, y'all are trying to tell me that rape is sex and sex is rape, if i don't have videos contracts explicit consent its rape, and it's not

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Re: Rape culture doesn't exist

Post by Keen » Thu Jul 27, 10:57 2017

Also people now a days need to grow some skin and stop being offended by everything, honestly if someone touches my shoulder I'm not going around yelling sexual assault. Y'all need to stop normalizing rape and acting like it's some mainstream fad, it's not, while it does happen to a small number of people which is still wrong, y'all make the assumption that 1/3 women get raped and that in itself is false

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Re: Rape culture doesn't exist

Post by Taurwen » Thu Jul 27, 12:20 2017

Actually, we're being explicit that rape is not sex. I've had sex with quite a few people, can't say I've ever encountered a situation where getting consent ever ruined the mood. I find it alarming that so many people think it will.

I've also been in a situation that "wasn't sexual assault because you never said no to it." I said no to the touching, I said no to the kissing. But by the time genitalia was involved I figured it was safer to shut up and get it over with as quickly as possible. So hey, unwanted touching, but no sexual assault. Awesome.

And you know what? Unwanted touching isn't okay. Someone drops something and you tap their shoulder, you're betting they want what they dropped more than they don't want to be touched. A guy taps a girl on the shoulder to give her a complement is betting she wants that complement more than she wants to be left alone. I want guys to realize we don't want your compliments that badly, you're betting on the wrong side.

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Re: Rape culture doesn't exist

Post by Nech » Thu Jul 27, 13:38 2017

Why jump to such extremes? How is brushing a shoulder sexual assault and why would you need a video contract to replace consent? I think you're confusing "Reductio ad absurdum" with "Reductio ad ridiculum" here...
Where there's smoke, there's fire. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. So just shut up, and bring some water.

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Re: Rape culture doesn't exist

Post by melsbells » Thu Jul 27, 13:58 2017

I can't decide if 'Reductio ad ridiculum' or 'modus podus' makes me laugh more

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Re: Rape culture doesn't exist

Post by Enigma » Thu Jul 27, 15:26 2017

I challenge you to ask the women in your life that unwanted touching question if you really think it's about shoulders. In an informal survey of women I've known who have ever been to a busy party, a club, or on packed public transit I think the number is closer to 100%. And I'm talking clear, on purpose gropes. Nothing wishy-washy. Personally I'm a cautious person with a serious resting bitchface when alone but it's happened to me multiple times. If we start including wishy-washy or shoulder touches that were socially inappropriate I could probably write a novel.
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Re: Rape culture doesn't exist

Post by Alice98 » Sat Jul 29, 11:29 2017

The person who wrote this post doesn't even present data to support their claim, then tells everyone else to get the facts. Surly the burden of proof is on you if you are coming onto this forum just to debate it. Do you have any data for you're claims? I would like to see some sources with links too.

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Re: Rape culture doesn't exist

Post by geldofc » Sun Aug 6, 13:01 2017

Keen wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 10:57 2017
Also people now a days need to grow some skin and stop being offended by everything, honestly if someone touches my shoulder I'm not going around yelling sexual assault. Y'all need to stop normalizing rape and acting like it's some mainstream fad, it's not, while it does happen to a small number of people which is still wrong, y'all make the assumption that 1/3 women get raped and that in itself is false
our culture is what normalizes rape, that's exactly what rape culture is talking about. i have never heard of someone claiming assault from a shoulder being touched ever in my life but ok.
:gf: :devil: :syringe:

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Re: Rape culture doesn't exist

Post by Pikachu » Sun Aug 6, 15:42 2017

"Rape culture" is Schrodinger's rapist http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Schr ... 27s_Rapist . This idea that every male is a potential rapist, even one's own sons, so one should treat them as such: http://www.dailywire.com/news/18590/mon ... stigiacomo#

Those kids are going to grow up and find out this is what their egg donor thinks of them.

Oh right, they already did. Yikes. But this feminist merely took the premise of rape culture to it's logical conclusion.

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Re: Rape culture doesn't exist

Post by Unvoiced_Apollo » Sun Aug 6, 17:34 2017

Pikachu wrote:
Sun Aug 6, 15:42 2017
"Rape culture" is Schrodinger's rapist http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Schr ... 27s_Rapist . This idea that every male is a potential rapist, even one's own sons, so one should treat them as such: http://www.dailywire.com/news/18590/mon ... stigiacomo#

Those kids are going to grow up and find out this is what their egg donor thinks of them.

Oh right, they already did. Yikes. But this feminist merely took the premise of rape culture to it's logical conclusion.
Rape culture refers to the normalization of rape, often through It's treatment in various social interactions. It does not refer to men being potential rapists.

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Re: Rape culture doesn't exist

Post by Pikachu » Sun Aug 6, 22:00 2017

Unvoiced_Apollo wrote:
Sun Aug 6, 17:34 2017
Pikachu wrote:
Sun Aug 6, 15:42 2017
"Rape culture" is Schrodinger's rapist http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Schr ... 27s_Rapist . This idea that every male is a potential rapist, even one's own sons, so one should treat them as such: http://www.dailywire.com/news/18590/mon ... stigiacomo#

Those kids are going to grow up and find out this is what their egg donor thinks of them.

Oh right, they already did. Yikes. But this feminist merely took the premise of rape culture to it's logical conclusion.
Rape culture refers to the normalization of rape, often through It's treatment in various social interactions. It does not refer to men being potential rapists.
If rape is normalized, then by default all men are potential rapists. Because normal = common. Normal = usual.

Of course we must live in different societies, because where I come from, western society, it's accepted that women set the terms for sexual and and romantic encounters through selection. Whereas men will basically have sex with any woman of average attractiveness if given the opportunity. In western society, barring criminal exceptions (which are not normalized and are rightly vilified), women determine whether a man stays a virgin or not.

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Re: Rape culture doesn't exist

Post by Sonic# » Mon Aug 7, 11:07 2017

Pikachu wrote:If rape is normalized, then by default all men are potential rapists.
No?

If rape culture refers to the normalization of rape through how it's treated in various social interactions and institutions, then that does not refer to seeing every individual as a potential rapist. "Interactions" doesn't point to "men" or even "individuals." It points to statements, gestures, and acts. These interactions involve doing things like suggesting discussion of consent "kills the mood," arguing that the frequency of sex or sexual partners means someone is freely sexually accessible (and thus consent is trivial), assuming that men are willing to have sex with anyone (implying that consent is trivial for men, and hence that men can't be raped), and otherwise enforcing a narrow concept of rape that denies many cases of rape and sexual abuse. As a result, people by and large do oppose rape, but have many qualifiers that police who gets to claim rape and in what situation. Many people also treat rape as inevitable, which leads them to minimize or forego potential efforts in areas like consent-based education.

None of that suggests that every man is a potential rapist, let alone that every man should be treated as a rapist. As the linked post on Schrodinger's Rapist indicates: "Counterarguments to the original blog post and the concept of Schrödinger's Rapist mainly consist of the "Not all men" argument. This misses the point of the concept, which does not mean that women think every man is a rapist, just like no player of Russian roulette thinks every chamber is loaded. Rather, it is about how women need to consider the possibility of any man being a rapist, and how this affects their everyday life and social activities." The term explains greater caution by women in everyday social interactions, and does not imply anything about the assumed status of individuals, any more than my locking the door assumes that every person passing by is a thief.
Of course we must live in different societies, because where I come from, western society, it's accepted that women set the terms for sexual and and romantic encounters through selection. Whereas men will basically have sex with any woman of average attractiveness if given the opportunity. In western society, barring criminal exceptions (which are not normalized and are rightly vilified), women determine whether a man stays a virgin or not.
Weird fanfic. It makes a few unwarranted assumptions:
1. "Women set[ting] the terms" - as if there aren't individual or cultural pressures on women to have sex, as if sexual partners always communicate their expectations well, as if only women set terms regarding expectations, or as if such term-setting is respected.
2. "Whereas men will basically have sex with any woman of average attractiveness if given the opportunity" - as if men always consent to sex if someone is attractive enough, as if eagerness to have sex can be assessed independent of whether a given context is safe or desirable, or as if many women wouldn't show similar eagerness when they perceive themselves to be as safe as men perceive themselves.
3. "barring criminal exceptions" - as if common crimes are still exceptions rather than norms, or as if most sexual crimes are (a) recognized as such without hedging or caveat, (b) reported in a manner that the reporter is not likely to face criticism and reprisal, and (c) therefore reported at all.
4. "women determine whether a man stays a virgin or not" - as if sexual partners don't also determine whether women stay a virgin or not, as if narrowly prescribed heterosexual views on sex should prevail, and as if virginity is and should be more significant for men than women.

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Re: Rape culture doesn't exist

Post by alexvaneeden » Tue Aug 8, 6:48 2017

Keen wrote:
Wed Jul 26, 15:08 2017
Rape culture doesn't exist and you can't prove it with facts, I'm any way :dance2:
Please explain your reasoning behind this - I'm trying to understand exactly what you are saying... In what ways does rape culture not exist?

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Re: Rape culture doesn't exist

Post by alexvaneeden » Tue Aug 8, 6:51 2017

Unvoiced_Apollo wrote:
Sun Aug 6, 17:34 2017
Pikachu wrote:
Sun Aug 6, 15:42 2017
"Rape culture" is Schrodinger's rapist http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Schr ... 27s_Rapist . This idea that every male is a potential rapist, even one's own sons, so one should treat them as such: http://www.dailywire.com/news/18590/mon ... stigiacomo#

Those kids are going to grow up and find out this is what their egg donor thinks of them.

Oh right, they already did. Yikes. But this feminist merely took the premise of rape culture to it's logical conclusion.
Rape culture refers to the normalization of rape, often through It's treatment in various social interactions. It does not refer to men being potential rapists.
I agree with you, and it's presence through the way in which it is treated in various social interactions makes the collection of stats almost impossible... But just because these stats are non-existent doesn't mean that rape culture isn't a serious and very real issue in many societies around the world.

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Re: Rape culture doesn't exist

Post by alexvaneeden » Tue Aug 8, 6:53 2017

Alice98 wrote:
Sat Jul 29, 11:29 2017
The person who wrote this post doesn't even present data to support their claim, then tells everyone else to get the facts. Surly the burden of proof is on you if you are coming onto this forum just to debate it. Do you have any data for you're claims? I would like to see some sources with links too.
Well said!

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Re: Rape culture doesn't exist

Post by Skeezy » Wed Aug 9, 10:52 2017

Well. There are many rape cases that arent reported. Also there are many cases which arent considered rape.

There was a recent story I forget specifics like what city etc. A woman gave a man oral sex. She then took the semen and impregnated herself. The man later was forced to pay child support. Im like, how is this not considered rape? No consent was given to use his sperm in this manner.


Im sure in life for both sexes there are many violations of conesny. To label rape as a culture is hard to do. In porn there are established fetishes which involve force which can be considered rape culture.

I do feel some men have a desire to be forceful just like some women want aggressive men. There is a lot of gray area on the issue and no set guide because people are different.

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Re: Rape culture doesn't exist

Post by Aum » Wed Aug 9, 12:56 2017

Well yeah.... rape culture doesn't exist -- if you ignore everything that says it does, which is basically what you're doing.

You're arbitrarily making the requirement for evidence so high that you don't have to consider most sources: limiting definitions and categories, claiming sources are biased when presented to you, and all the classic tactics of a pseudoskeptic.

You made the claim that rape culture doesn't exist, so you prove it. And yes, you can prove a negative in this case. People have been debating about rape culture for years now. If you can find any legit research that proves rape culture is a fabricated sociological phenomenon that has no real numbers to back it up, then please present it. We've given you enough leeway here.

Your doubts aren't proof. They are just doubts.
The artist's job is not to succumb to despair, but to find an antidote to the emptiness of existence. -W.A.

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Re: Rape culture doesn't exist

Post by Nech » Thu Aug 10, 6:59 2017

Skeezy wrote:
Wed Aug 9, 10:52 2017
A woman gave a man oral sex. She then took the semen and impregnated herself.
I'm pretty sure this wouldn't work because not only do you have slightly less than 24 hours to do the deed before they naturally stop functioning, but saliva utterly destroys sperm. I don't know if you've had sperm in your mouth for any amount of time, but even to run off to the bathroom and spit into a prepped container, the saliva glands would have gone nuts and destroyed it. So likely by the time she saved it and then went elsewhere and used it, the sperm would have been useless. So if this was really a case that guy should of done a paternity test cause no way it came from his sperm. Pretty sure it's Snopes material though.
Where there's smoke, there's fire. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. So just shut up, and bring some water.

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