Sex robots vs Fictional female characters.

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Pikachu
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Sex robots vs Fictional female characters.

Post by Pikachu » Sat Oct 7, 6:31 2017

https://medium.com/athena-talks/no-sex- ... 35764026a9

I quote:
Your relationship with women being one where you have to create, completely control and own one illustrate deep level dehumanisation.
Ownership of a ‘woman’, even in the form of AI or modeled mannhekins. I’ve written on and researched the objectification of women and again and again, we see men who desire to have complete control over a woman demonstrate a tendency towards sadistic behaviour, homicidal thoughts and behaviours and destructive actions.


Writers have control over a "woman" just as much as the owner of a sex doll surely. Both are artificial constructs of a woman, neither actually breathe real air. Reading this article, I'm not seeing the ethical difference.

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Sonic#
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Re: Sex robots vs Fictional female characters.

Post by Sonic# » Sat Oct 7, 10:27 2017

Do writers literally have sex with their characters? Do they use their characters as simulacra which directly substitute for a flesh-and-blood relationship? Is there a preference for such substitution over real relationships because of the degree of control it offers?

I'd have to say "no" to all answers. Writing in most cases involves creating characters and situations that are self-contained within a literary world or moment. "Control" doesn't seem like an applicable term to writing, especially where the effect of such control is not to substitute for an author's relationship for the purposes of allowing the author greater dehumanization and control. (You can probably find exceptions in some fanfiction or wish-fulfillment writing.) That's one difference.

And when writing does tend to treat its female characters as objects for male enjoyment, that's a different problem. I object to the main situation of Taming of the Shrew because its premise of controlling wives through ill treatment is misogynistic, not because I'm concerned that Shakespeare demonstrated a tendency towards sadistic behavior, homicidal thoughts and behaviors, and destructive actions.

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Re: Sex robots vs Fictional female characters.

Post by Pikachu » Sat Oct 7, 13:28 2017

Do writers literally have sex with their characters?
If they can't then they don't, If they can, then we don't know what goes on behind closed doors. The question is can they to begin with.

The sex robot/doll is (advanced) masturbation with an object. But a writer can masturbate to their character through creation of sex scenes/sexual imagery. Both are objects that carry female personae imagined by the male and completely controlled by the male. Both can be made to do degrading things. One in a 2 dimensional the other 3 dimensional medium. I don't see why the difference in medium is what makes the difference, as isn't this a mental phenomena we're talking about? Dehumanization through complete male control of a representation of a woman?
Do they use their characters as simulacra which directly substitute for a flesh-and-blood relationship?
On some levels yes. There are articles on Forbes about it.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/booked/201 ... 5d3e2c7f4f
That’s why authors enter into an intimate relationship, a kind of lopsided romance with their characters, no matter how virtuous or flawed those characters may turn out to be. No part of writing a novel is more important than this visceral, under-the-skin, psychological connection.
From there it's just short move to say you're too busy for a real relationship, you have to stay in and write, which I know I've said, and you're there.
Is there a preference for such substitution over real relationships because of the degree of control it offers?
We can't go into people's heads and know what they really think, but can there be? Absolutely. All we're talking about is a writer who would rather stay in and have adventures with their female character through creativity over going out into the world and seeking a real relationship. Why do many single men control sexualized female characters in video games? Surely about control and risk free interaction.
You can probably find exceptions in some fanfiction or wish-fulfillment writing.
You could probably find many exceptions if you raided the computers of writers and the scrapbooks of artists.

Writers can make misogynistic porn of their characters which no one else sees. Same as we aren't seeing what people can do with sex dolls/robots behind closed doors.

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Re: Sex robots vs Fictional female characters.

Post by Sonic# » Sat Oct 7, 14:23 2017

It sounds like you've had to stretch the bounds of writing far beyond how they're employed to even make this comparison. With all of the caveats carved out (the writer has to masturbate to the character; the writer has to be in love with the character; the writer has to turn away real relationships for staying in to write; all of this has to be expressed in computers and scrapbooks), it's clear that you're not talking about most writers.

Furthermore, it doesn't even sound like you're talking about writing anymore. Rather, you're talking about how someone fantasizes about someone else. In that case, yes, there are some particular forms of fantasy that align with psychosocial tendencies, bu that doesn't mean the act of writing a character leads to those tendencies. Only a specific genre of writing (self-insertion writing) seems likely to incur the kinds of problems you're posing. Similarly, playing with a doll doesn't mean that I want to control people; using the doll in a controlling manner and as a substitute for human relationships leads to that. Most dolls won't necessarily lead to that, but one may be able to argue that a specific kind of doll (a sex doll, an AI sex robot) may be more likely to encourage or facilitate misogynistic tendencies.

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Re: Sex robots vs Fictional female characters.

Post by geldofc » Mon Oct 9, 18:18 2017

im glad socially isolated men can take their anger out on inanimate objects that look like women instead of harassing us directly or semi directly.;)
fictional characters would be even better. they can isolate themselves even further away from us.
:gf: :devil: :syringe:

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