MGTOW: Introduction

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SimpleMan
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MGTOW: Introduction

Post by SimpleMan » Sun Dec 24, 19:22 2017

Hi, Here is the answers to the giving questions on the top pin message of this board:

Your username, nicknames, how to pronounce it:
SimpleMan... this is the second forum I use this name, in the other one they settle down for simpleton, I never had problems understanding that it means me, sometimes they used SM, that was very confusing for me to understand that it means me, so I don't like this second option.

Occupation/Potential Occupation:
Webmaster, web developer, web designer... if I can't make money this way then I get a real job.

Educational Status:
Associate Degree in Computer Network Engineering.

Notable Hobbies:
Chess, guitar, computer games like SecondLife. Video games like Crash Bandicot, Tekken and, FIFA Soccer World Cup.

Favorite Website/Blog:
For amount of expended time, I have to say youtube.com

Favorite color:
White

Favorite animal:
Horse

Favorite food:
Italian.

If you are wearing pants, please describe them:
N/A

What brought you to spacefem/how'd you find us?
Uh... I am a MGTOW I think there is misconceptions about what it is is, so I come for the opportunity to explain it better... hopefully... / Google Search.

Did you find the FAQ link?
Yes.

**************************************

Also, I just finish with another set of questions on my profile... by the way the option on the pronoun "none" does give me an error message telling me I have to choose an option, in that case I settle for "he/him", but I honestly don't mind and/or don't care however other people want to call me.

Up in the questions I made the claim that there is misconceptions about MGTOW, I don't have specific examples of that happening on this forum, I just notice feminism in general have them. So it is a blank generalization, based on my perception, no a particular case.

For the people that does not have idea what MGTOW means, here a short explanation: it stands for Men Going Their Own Way... and it is basically deciding to withdraw relationships and pretty much society... Specially marriage and the so call corporate ladder.

As a man there is a set of expectations that I am supposed to deliver... even feminism have expectations for men... In my personal case I think I am no capable of delivering what it is expected from me, as a member of this society, and so instead of keep trying harder I decided to basically give up. There is also some other factors in the mix, like fear, disappointment, inexperience, and anger, but not that much of that one lately...

Many people explain it in economic terms, so they say that the gains on engaging are not worth the risk taken in say engagements, and so the logical decision is to withdraw.

All this said... I also want to make clear that I am talking my own opinions and understandings here...

If there is any question about MGTOW here is an opportunity to ask 1, I will try to answer my best.

Thanks for approving my account on this forum.

PD: It is possible that I open new forum lines to address specific questions, They all will start with MGTOW as the first word, so to serve as a trigger warning that... there will be MGTOW points of view in said post... Should I do this in Hell?

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Re: MGTOW: Introduction

Post by spacefem » Mon Dec 25, 20:19 2017

I guess my big question about MGTOW is why does it feel like they're not going far enough away? I read their forums and it's a lot of "look at this stupid materialistic woman I found who just wants men to buy her stuff, this is why we hate women!" and then all the replies of "yeah hate women!" and I just think you know, for going your own way, you sure spend a lot of time looking for things to pick on about women. There are anti-materialistic feminist women.

how are you going to make the world a better place by withdrawing from relationships with half the population?
bork can eat steak with a spoon.

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Re: MGTOW: Introduction

Post by SimpleMan » Mon Dec 25, 23:28 2017

spacefem wrote:
Mon Dec 25, 20:19 2017
I guess my big question about MGTOW is why does it feel like they're not going far enough away? I read their forums and it's a lot of "look at this stupid materialistic woman I found who just wants men to buy her stuff, this is why we hate women!" and then all the replies of "yeah hate women!" and I just think you know, for going your own way, you sure spend a lot of time looking for things to pick on about women. There are anti-materialistic feminist women.
Thank you for your questions...

It is my understanding that some of them actually go far away, I particularly don't see the point on it, they will find pretty much the same where they arrive. From your point of view should look something like this: Wherever they go there will be women somewhere around, so... where should they go?

I also understand that many of the people going MGTOW made the decision after some bad experiences, some of them are true horror stories. I can't imagine a man happy and dandy after the standard divorce deal, for instance... so they will be very vocal about their feelings... but maybe it helps to mention that this anger phase is just that, a phase... eventually they calm down, some of them go back for another round thinking that they are wiser, some of them decide they had enough and just get into bonsais or some like that... there is a suicidal number somewhere there too... but we don't really care for those... We are not MRAs.

But besides all the hard feelings... a MGTOW is a very good thing for feminism, for instance, If I am not pursuing the corporate ladder and just limit myself to be happy with part times and videogames... this means I am not longer competing in the marketplace for those Fortune 500 CEO jobs... less competition for the empowered women... all those men that are in those CEO chairs right now are doing zero for me anyway, so it will not make a difference if they get replace with women.

Another example... I have seeing in the news that feminist men... I don't know if you call them "allies" here... have being caught with secret sexual intentions, no so honest about equality, after all, as I read it on the news... in contrast you have a MGTOW like myself who try to no be around women, just because it is very dangerous thing to do... so you will never see me in your meeting having you double guessing what secret naughty intentions there might be... like so often happens with allies...

Here a link out of many talking about this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pos ... es-allies/

With a MGTOW, you will never have to worry about this kind of things... Just to mention 2 examples of why MGTOW are actually a good thing for feminism.
spacefem wrote:
Mon Dec 25, 20:19 2017
how are you going to make the world a better place by withdrawing from relationships with half the population?
I particularly do not have the goal to make the world a better place... I am already overwhelmed with trying to make my room a decent enough looking place... And if you see the place, you will agree that I am not doing a good job at it neither...

I truly hope that the world is not counting on me for this, because we will be doom. If that is the case...

But yeah, that is an example of what I mean about what it is expected from me...

Why do you think it is my job to make the world a better place? And what can little me could possible do to archive such a goal?

About the withdrawing relationships... it was actually a sad decision I had to make... but, in part, it was not fully my decision... you see? I basically try to figure out how to survive in this world, and that means I need to stay away from everything that can hurt me, and believe it or not, women have that power, and a lot of them will be willing to use it, all it takes for instance, is that a woman does not feel safe around me... and in consequence I will not longer be safe in that place...

It is a very subtle complicated situation, but it is very real...

Let me give you a simple example...

Lest say, I am in a club, there is alcohol in the place... next day a woman wakes up after passing out drunk, she does not remember what happened, but she feels some pain, so she assume the worst happened... she contact the police, and then drops names of men that went to that party... all of the sudden I will be in a bright room with metallic furniture answering some weird questions from 5 intimidating police officers... So what can I do to prevent being in such situation? easy... I don't go to clubs, at all. So when she drop names, I have a high chance to no be in that list.

Asking me how I am going to make the world a better place is almost as if I am being ask how I am going to make clubs profitable if I don't go to them...

I Know girls partying hard is a thing... party like men, or something like that, they say in the pictures they post in FaceBook... but... I don't party... I much rather stay home and play Second Life... I know I am out of trouble that way. As a matter of fact I am logged in SL at this moment, in a christmas party, while in Real Life I am alone in this room... basically happy that someone actually answered my introduction post.

Thanks.

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Re: MGTOW: Introduction

Post by Unvoiced_Apollo » Tue Dec 26, 5:39 2017

SimpleMan wrote:
Mon Dec 25, 23:28 2017

Here a link out of many talking about this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pos ... es-allies/

With a MGTOW, you will never have to worry about this kind of things... Just to mention 2 examples of why MGTOW are actually a good thing for feminism.
But that's the crux of what spacefem is asking. The very article even discusses feminists groups trying to engage with more men. How can you expect to alleviate what I agree are some legitimate issues by no longer engaging with half the population. By becoming men going their own way, you've isolated yourself into this particular group which really doesn't seem to do anything but huddle in dark corners of the internet and complain about women. That does nothing to open discussion about male suicide rate, male crime victims, paternal custody issues, declining grades among male students, etc. It's these issues on the male side that need to be discussed more openly to understand how these issues are arising and help come up with actual resolutions. MGTOW has always given me the impression they just want to complain about unfair treatment and play the victim just as much as they see women as playing the victim. Your example about the club does just that. It makes you the victim instead of the person who was raped while passed out (we have rape kits, so let's call a spade a spade here). But let's say I agreed that this is a legitimate issue. You ask why it's your job to make the world a better place. I ask, if you isolate yourself, who will make it better?

Don't get me wrong. I'm in a similar situation in that I'm not in a situation to help. However, I don't blame others for it and understand that it's not going to get better by going their own way.

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Re: MGTOW: Introduction

Post by SimpleMan » Tue Dec 26, 11:35 2017

Hi Unvoiced-Apollo, thanks for your questions, I hope you are having a great time this times of the year.
Unvoiced_Apollo wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 5:39 2017
But that's the crux of what spacefem is asking. The very article even discusses feminists groups trying to engage with more men.
I probably understood the article in a different way, here another one titled "Ban Male Feminist"

https://splinternews.com/ban-male-feminists-1819982781
Unvoiced_Apollo wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 5:39 2017
How can you expect to alleviate what I agree are some legitimate issues by no longer engaging with half the population.
I don't think there is going to be any form of alleviation, MRAs have been working on that for decades with virtually zero results to show up for it, the greatest success they ever had is a documentary film produced by a feminist/ex-feminist. I believe if anything change it will be for worse... so the in this framework, I think it is better to try to adapt and find some happiness.
Unvoiced_Apollo wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 5:39 2017
By becoming men going their own way, you've isolated yourself into this particular group which really doesn't seem to do anything but huddle in dark corners of the internet and complain about women. That does nothing to open discussion about male suicide rate, male crime victims, paternal custody issues, declining grades among male students, etc. It's these issues on the male side that need to be discussed more openly to understand how these issues are arising and help come up with actual resolutions.
I think this is a very important point you make here, I will be opening a new forum line dedicated to this point, the titled will be something in the lines of: "MGTOW: The MRAs silly dreams"... I will update you when it is up.
Unvoiced_Apollo wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 5:39 2017
MGTOW has always given me the impression they just want to complain about unfair treatment and play the victim just as much as they see women as playing the victim. Your example about the club does just that. It makes you the victim instead of the person who was raped while passed out (we have rape kits, so let's call a spade a spade here).
Well of course in that example I give... I am the victim of something... no as much victim as a victim of rape, but definitely it is a situation I would not like to find myself in... it is one of many risks included in going to clubs... at some point I have to ask myself if the party worth the troubles... It is a personal decision, for some people it does, for some it does not.
Unvoiced_Apollo wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 5:39 2017
But let's say I agreed that this is a legitimate issue. You ask why it's your job to make the world a better place. I ask, if you isolate yourself, who will make it better?
I don't know.

It is neither my goal to make the world a worse place. I think there should be an option that goes similar to this: I don't really matter and nothing I do really makes a difference, so I never really get to affect the world in any way... and that is OK :)

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Re: MGTOW: Introduction

Post by SimpleMan » Tue Dec 26, 12:41 2017

Unvoiced_Apollo, here the link to the post about MRAs:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=50413

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Re: MGTOW: Introduction

Post by geldofc » Tue Dec 26, 15:46 2017

mgtow just sounds fascist as fuck. lol.
:gf: :devil: :syringe:

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Re: MGTOW: Introduction

Post by SimpleMan » Tue Dec 26, 19:50 2017

geldofc wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 15:46 2017
mgtow just sounds fascist as fuck. lol.
Hi, Thank you for your comment.

This is definitely a very bold and provocative statement... would you like to elaborate a bit on it, please?

What parts of MGTOW sound facist to you?

Thanks

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Re: MGTOW: Introduction

Post by Skeezy » Tue Jan 2, 12:43 2018

Im a little late to this post but, welcome.

First off. I came here to get femsiist views and opinions on topics and debate a few issues to get a better idea of how and why feminists see things how they do.

I suggest to you. To limit your created topics.

I consider myself a guest in enemy territory so to speak. So I try not to throw off the overall balance and atmosphere of the board. Most of my debate topics are done in Rants or hell. I also try not to interject into others topics if I disagree I just post my own topic in hell. That said, this is my own personal etiquette to be respectful and just a suggestion.

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Re: MGTOW: Introduction

Post by Pikachu » Tue Jan 2, 22:10 2018

spacefem wrote:
Mon Dec 25, 20:19 2017

how are you going to make the world a better place by withdrawing from relationships with half the population?
That question is grounded in collectivist thinking. To understand it, you have to think like an indivdualist.

MGTOW believe that current divorce and family law are stacked against men and make it too dangerous for men to marry women. That's the minimum defining baseline. All MGTOW are anti marriage. From there some go further, some don't.

Now the question is, how does that change the system and the institutions. The answer is it doesn't. That's not the point.

It changes the individual's life. And it changes the individual lives of the men reading it, one man at a time.

The logic is man went through x. Posts about x so other man goes MGTOW and doesn't repeat x.
Some of that will inevitably involve painting women in a less than idealistic light to put it mildly.
But then again women can do that to men in the mainstream, but men can't do that to women.

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Re: MGTOW: Introduction

Post by SimpleMan » Tue Jan 2, 22:25 2018

Skeezy wrote:
Tue Jan 2, 12:43 2018
Im a little late to this post but, welcome.

First off. I came here to get femsiist views and opinions on topics and debate a few issues to get a better idea of how and why feminists see things how they do.

I suggest to you. To limit your created topics.

I consider myself a guest in enemy territory so to speak. So I try not to throw off the overall balance and atmosphere of the board. Most of my debate topics are done in Rants or hell. I also try not to interject into others topics if I disagree I just post my own topic in hell. That said, this is my own personal etiquette to be respectful and just a suggestion.
HI,

thanks for your comment, I am trying to not create that many new debates, though apparently I say a lot of controversial stuff... I will try to keep it moderated, as you suggest.

thanks.

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Re: MGTOW: Introduction

Post by SimpleMan » Tue Jan 2, 22:32 2018

Pikachu wrote:
Tue Jan 2, 22:10 2018
spacefem wrote:
Mon Dec 25, 20:19 2017

how are you going to make the world a better place by withdrawing from relationships with half the population?
That question is grounded in collectivist thinking. To understand it, you have to think like an indivdualist.

MGTOW believe that current divorce and family law are stacked against men and make it too dangerous for men to marry women. That's the minimum defining baseline. All MGTOW are anti marriage. From there some go further, some don't.

Now the question is, how does that change the system and the institutions. The answer is it doesn't. That's not the point.

It changes the individual's life. And it changes the individual lives of the men reading it, one man at a time.

The logic is man went through x. Posts about x so other man goes MGTOW and doesn't repeat x.
Some of that will inevitably involve painting women in a less than idealistic light to put it mildly.
But then again women can do that to men in the mainstream, but men can't do that to women.
Hi, you have a good point here.

It is true, I am anti-marriage... but also I am anti-relationships, I am anti-"american dream", I am also anti-corporate jobs... thinking about it... it is a long list...

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Re: MGTOW: Introduction

Post by Enigma » Thu Jan 4, 20:52 2018

SimpleMan wrote:
Tue Jan 2, 22:32 2018

Hi, you have a good point here.

It is true, I am anti-marriage... but also I am anti-relationships, I am anti-"american dream", I am also anti-corporate jobs... thinking about it... it is a long list...
I'm hearing a lot of anti but I'm wondering if you're pro anything.
"Human beings are amazing... we might be horrible, horrible, but we're wonderful too. Otherwise, why go on?"

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Re: MGTOW: Introduction

Post by SimpleMan » Thu Jan 4, 22:17 2018

Enigma wrote:
Thu Jan 4, 20:52 2018
I'm hearing a lot of anti but I'm wondering if you're pro anything.
Yes.

I am pro video games, I am pro walking around, I am pro havin a Waifu, I am pro frugal living, I am pro minimalism, I am pro learning new things, I am pro music, I am pro simplicity... I am pro happiness.

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Re: MGTOW: Introduction

Post by Aum » Fri Jan 5, 14:43 2018

It's interesting because in the gay male world, there are a lot of men who give up on men for all the same reasons MGTOW are outlining about women. They become celibate or just do one-offs but they never get into emotional entanglement. So these are men that shy away from other men. Clearly this isn't a gendered issue.

I feel that when people respond this way to their own relationship history, they're not looking at the true source of the problem, which is themselves. Whether or not we realize it, we are all trying to re-create the conditions of early childhood in our adult relationships. If you had materialistic parents then you're likely going to unconsciously seek materialistic partners.

Most people don't question these behaviors because their early childhood wasn't all that bad, so they don't see a connection between what's happening now and the past. But if you had a traumatic childhood then you'll be desperately seeking a resolution to your ongoing suffering which is reproduced from childhood into adulthood.

From all I've read of MGTOW it seems like few are taking personal responsibility for their own state of being. Humanity is so diverse. Even in my small city of 300,000 people I have managed to befriend many women and date many men who were more interested in intimacy than who had the most cash.
The artist's job is not to succumb to despair, but to find an antidote to the emptiness of existence. -W.A.

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Re: MGTOW: Introduction

Post by Pikachu » Fri Jan 5, 15:09 2018

Aum wrote:
Fri Jan 5, 14:43 2018

I feel that when people respond this way to their own relationship history, they're not looking at the true source of the problem, which is themselves. Whether or not we realize it, we are all trying to re-create the conditions of early childhood in our adult relationships. If you had materialistic parents then you're likely going to unconsciously seek materialistic partners.
Who's to say someone who appears a non materialistic person will stay a non materialistic person and cannot change at some point in a marriage or cohabitation.

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Re: MGTOW: Introduction

Post by SimpleMan » Fri Jan 5, 20:00 2018

Aum wrote:
Fri Jan 5, 14:43 2018
It's interesting because in the gay male world, there are a lot of men who give up on men for all the same reasons MGTOW are outlining about women. They become celibate or just do one-offs but they never get into emotional entanglement. So these are men that shy away from other men. Clearly this isn't a gendered issue.
That is interesting, I had not idea gays have similar problems... or at least similar solutions, lol
I feel that when people respond this way to their own relationship history, they're not looking at the true source of the problem, which is themselves. Whether or not we realize it, we are all trying to re-create the conditions of early childhood in our adult relationships. If you had materialistic parents then you're likely going to unconsciously seek materialistic partners.
Does not matter how much therapy you do.. the legal framework and all the social stigmas still in place... so... ?
From all I've read of MGTOW it seems like few are taking personal responsibility for their own state of being. Humanity is so diverse. Even in my small city of 300,000 people I have managed to befriend many women and date many men who were more interested in intimacy than who had the most cash.
What state of being???

You know who is in a really bad situation?

That married guy that is scared to dead that the wife show divorce papers at any time... that is the guy you need to feel sorry about.

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Re: MGTOW: Introduction

Post by Taurwen » Sat Jan 6, 10:21 2018

Well at least I can agree that the man who lives in constant fear of his wife/partner divorcing him should never had gotten married in the first place.

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Re: MGTOW: Introduction

Post by jamiehood » Mon Jan 8, 19:56 2018

Hi SimpleMan,
I'm not too familiar with MGTOW, who they are, their ideas, but I am eager to learn more.
From what I've heard, MGTOW are similar to MRAs, a group I used to consider myself a part of. I think the work that both feminists and MRAs do is invaluable to society, because of the issues they solve, but the problem I ended up having with more radical MRAs was one of the same problems I had had with radical feminists: I felt they emphasized the male perspective and male issues over female perspectives and issues when I feel like both of these issues are equally important: men's and women's issues. I don't want to use the word intersectionality, as I've heard it thrown around as a buzzword, but my current stance is that men and women should not be fighting over who has it worse, because some men's issues and some women's issues are very similar, and can be solved together. We should try to solve these issues in harmony, and not try to turn it into a contest of who is more oppressed. This is simply my take. But please let me know a little more about MGTOW, as I am almost completely new to this topic aside from the few things I know about the Men's Rights Movement. I am young, open, and still finding my beliefs, so I am perfectly content to have a discussion and hear your points, as I'm constantly adjusting what I believe. I guess that's just a part of being a naive little teen, lol.

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Re: MGTOW: Introduction

Post by SimpleMan » Mon Jan 8, 21:39 2018

jamiehood wrote:
Mon Jan 8, 19:56 2018
Hi SimpleMan,
I'm not too familiar with MGTOW, who they are, their ideas, but I am eager to learn more.
From what I've heard, MGTOW are similar to MRAs, a group I used to consider myself a part of. I think the work that both feminists and MRAs do is invaluable to society, because of the issues they solve, but the problem I ended up having with more radical MRAs was one of the same problems I had had with radical feminists: I felt they emphasized the male perspective and male issues over female perspectives and issues when I feel like both of these issues are equally important: men's and women's issues. I don't want to use the word intersectionality, as I've heard it thrown around as a buzzword, but my current stance is that men and women should not be fighting over who has it worse, because some men's issues and some women's issues are very similar, and can be solved together. We should try to solve these issues in harmony, and not try to turn it into a contest of who is more oppressed. This is simply my take. But please let me know a little more about MGTOW, as I am almost completely new to this topic aside from the few things I know about the Men's Rights Movement. I am young, open, and still finding my beliefs, so I am perfectly content to have a discussion and hear your points, as I'm constantly adjusting what I believe. I guess that's just a part of being a naive little teen, lol.
Hi Jamie thanks for your comment,

MGTOW and MRAs are totally different.

MGTOW does not do any form of activism. We basically separate ourselves from society and that is pretty much it... there is different levels of separation, all the way down to the guy living off the grid in some forest.

The MGTOW trick is basically to do what we call a cost/benefit analysis.. if the cost is greater or equal than the benefit, then just don't engage in that... if you see that the benefit is greater and you want to engage in society, that is fine too... though you will not be a MGTOW.

This is a rather long video, this guy is doing the cost/benefit analysis... just keep in mind that this guy just had a standard divorce deal, that is why he is living in an RV in a walmart parking lot... so he wil say some few angry things in the video, but for the rest of it, he really do an interesting breakdown of the analysis, though his analysis looks somewhere between PUA and MGTOW... but at least you get to see how it is done, you can do your own... for everything, no just for marriage...

For instance College education, it have got so expensive that for some degrees you will be better of taking a blue collar job instead... and so on... always compare what is the cost, what is the risk you are taking, and what is the benefit you goign to obtain, make it in dollars if you can, so it is more simple... then decide for yourself if it works for you or not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp1nUtYgTjU

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Re: MGTOW: Introduction

Post by SimpleMan » Mon Jan 8, 21:42 2018

Taurwen wrote:
Sat Jan 6, 10:21 2018
Well at least I can agree that the man who lives in constant fear of his wife/partner divorcing him should never had gotten married in the first place.
That sounds very thoughtful, now the question is... what married man does not fear a divorce?

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Re: MGTOW: Introduction

Post by Pikachu » Tue Jan 9, 6:11 2018

MGTOW does not do any form of activism. We basically separate ourselves from society and that is pretty much it... there is different levels of separation, all the way down to the guy living off the grid in some forest.
You've been doing tons of activism on this forum.

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Re: MGTOW: Introduction

Post by Taurwen » Tue Jan 9, 8:09 2018

SimpleMan wrote:
Mon Jan 8, 21:42 2018

That sounds very thoughtful, now the question is... what married man does not fear a divorce?
One who trusts his own ability to choose a partner. And who trusts his partner to not be an ass.

Granted, that doesn't always work out, but I've seen it not work for women just as often as men.
I know two families where the husbands brainwashed the children and moved them far away. One out of country to some weird cult in Utah. That's insane right? There's no way it's common enough that I should know two families this happened to right? Crazy odds.

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Re: MGTOW: Introduction

Post by Sonic# » Tue Jan 9, 9:29 2018

These comments seem substantially similar to the 12th century writer Andreas Capellanus, who dressed his warnings against love in similar misogyny or woman-hating.
Andreas Capellanus, The Art of Courtly Love wrote:But it seems that there is still another reason why we should avoid love. The man who is in love is bound in a hard kind of slavery and fears that almost anything will injure this love of his, and his soul is very much upset by a slight suspicion, and his heart is greatly troubled within him. Because of love's jealousy he is afraid every time his beloved talks with any other man, or goes walking with one, or stays out of sight longer than usual, because "Love is a thing full of anxious fear." He does not dare to do or think anything that is in the least contrary to what his beloved wants, because a lover is always afraid that his beloved may change her desire for him, or her faithfulness, and whether waking or sleeping a lover can never get rid of this thought.
[...]
There is yet another argument that seems hostile to the lover. From love comes hateful poverty, and one comes to the prison of penury. For love inevitably forces a man to give without regard to what he should give and what he should not; and this is not generosity, but what ancient common sense calls prodigality, a vice which sacred Scripture teaches us is a mortal one - one for which no abundance of goods can suffice - and thus it brings every man, regardless of who he is, to the depths of poverty. Thus it forces a man to pile up wealth, honestly or dishonestly, so that his poverty may have something on which to feed his love and something to keep his honor unharmed in the world.
The same wrote:The mutual love which you seek in women you cannot find, for no woman ever loved a man or could bind herself to a lover in the mutual bonds of love. For a woman's desire is to get rich through love, but not to give her lover the solaces that please him. ... According to the natures of her sex all women are spotted with the vice of a grasping and avaricious disposition, and they are always alert to the search for money and profit. [...] Even if the whole earth and sea were turned to gold, they could hardly satisfy the avarice of a woman.

Furthermore, not only is every woman by nature a miser, but she is also envious and a slanderer of other women, greedy, a slave to her belly, inconstant, fickle in her speech, disobedient and impatient of restraint, spotted with the sin of pride and desirous of vainglory, a liar, a drunkard, a babbler, no keeper of secrets, too much given to wantonness, prone to every evil, and never loving any man in her heart.
And on and on. His arguments are similarly misogynistic, as they rest in saying that women in general love poorly, so men should be fearful when loving and marrying them. Then he piles on the stereotypes, creating a false image of every woman. He does all this so that you (the reader) should be sure to marry Jesus (the "Bridegroom") instead. It's hard to take seriously, except as a reminder of how a male cleric could think so basely of women and sex.

Taurwen's answer is the level-headed and quick counter. We choose the best we can and don't fall into hasty misogynistic generalizations.

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SimpleMan
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Re: MGTOW: Introduction

Post by SimpleMan » Tue Jan 9, 9:54 2018

Pikachu wrote:
Tue Jan 9, 6:11 2018
MGTOW does not do any form of activism. We basically separate ourselves from society and that is pretty much it... there is different levels of separation, all the way down to the guy living off the grid in some forest.
You've been doing tons of activism on this forum.
Posting stuff online is not activism...

We definitely have totally different ideas of what activism looks like...

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