MGTOW: I'm sorry I'm male

Whatever weirdo topics you feel like bringing up

Moderators: MFS, monk

User avatar
SimpleMan
member
member
Posts: 166
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 10:49 2017
Location: US

MGTOW: I'm sorry I'm male

Post by SimpleMan » Thu Dec 28, 0:59 2017

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4Q1jZ-LOT0

EDIT:

In consideration to the forum rules here I bring my own... biased.... commentary on the giving video of the link:

A somewhat white-ish boy have being indoctrinated to hate himself to the point that he is profusely apologizing for conditions of his birth that he had not control or decisions about.

Presenting us a subreal contrast between what he says and the reality presented in the same video. For instance he talks about how much of his white boy privilege it is to get such fine education... while in the picture we can have a clear look of his classmates.... judging for his words one would have expected a group of like white boys, but to my surprise it is a rather diverse group, plenty of girls and great representation of minorities as well...

So as he tell us that he is sitting in this class room because his white boy privilege... one have to ask... so what privilege all his classmates have? they are literally getting the exact same education...

So it is clear that the boy have being indoctrinated to to think that he have some form of privilege that grant him better education than all the classmates in the same classroom.

The same deconstructive argument can be made about every one of his examples of white boy privilege.

At the end this is a sad example of a boy that have been thought to literally hate who he is, because he was born in the wrong gender in the wrong color.

It is reported that he won first place in this poetry competition... I would ask.... did he won because he is white and male?
Last edited by SimpleMan on Thu Dec 28, 18:30 2017, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Sonic#
member
member
Posts: 5581
Joined: Sat Nov 7, 9:37 2009
Location: Georgia, US

Re: MGTOW: I'm sorry I'm male

Post by Sonic# » Thu Dec 28, 9:16 2017

When posting links, you need to provide some summary and comments about what it is:
Forum Policies wrote:If you don't want your link to go to hell, post it as its own topic and add your own commentary and thoughts. Summarize the link, add some quotes, make it possible for us to know what the main idea is without actually clicking the link.

If your thread is just a link and "what do you think?" it will definitely get moved to hell.

Skeezy
member
member
Posts: 270
Joined: Fri Jun 9, 12:05 2017

Re: MGTOW: I'm sorry I'm male

Post by Skeezy » Thu Dec 28, 13:36 2017

I watched the video. Was a little worried in the beginning but was won over by the end.


No idea it was going to be that kind of video. Was expecting MGTOW but over all nice poem the kid had.

User avatar
SimpleMan
member
member
Posts: 166
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 10:49 2017
Location: US

Re: MGTOW: I'm sorry I'm male

Post by SimpleMan » Thu Dec 28, 18:20 2017

Sonic# wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 9:16 2017
When posting links, you need to provide some summary and comments about what it is:
Forum Policies wrote:If you don't want your link to go to hell, post it as its own topic and add your own commentary and thoughts. Summarize the link, add some quotes, make it possible for us to know what the main idea is without actually clicking the link.

If your thread is just a link and "what do you think?" it will definitely get moved to hell.
Thanks for reminding me of the rules...

I thought I was not going to give my opinions on the giving video, trusting that people in the forum cna form their own opinions, whatever they are...

But considering that I should offer some commentary, then I will edit the OP message to that end... though It kind of present my own opinions about the topic in the video...

User avatar
spacefem
member
member
Posts: 8100
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 1:37 2002
Location: Kansas
Contact:

Re: MGTOW: I'm sorry I'm male

Post by spacefem » Thu Dec 28, 19:10 2017

Being sorry for privilege isn’t a productive approach.

Using your privilege for good, that’s productive. If you got a great education how can you help others get the same education? If you don’t experience racism how can you amplify the voices of people who have experienced racism so we can stamp it out?

I’m not sorry that I’m white. I’m sorry that I’ve said some stupid dismissive white person shit in my life, for sure. But there’s a difference between apologizing for what you’ve done and apologizing for who you are... apologizing doesn’t mean anything unless you can make a change.
bork can eat steak with a spoon.

User avatar
SimpleMan
member
member
Posts: 166
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 10:49 2017
Location: US

Re: MGTOW: I'm sorry I'm male

Post by SimpleMan » Thu Dec 28, 22:42 2017

spacefem wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 19:10 2017
Being sorry for privilege isn’t a productive approach.

Using your privilege for good, that’s productive. If you got a great education how can you help others get the same education? If you don’t experience racism how can you amplify the voices of people who have experienced racism so we can stamp it out?

I’m not sorry that I’m white. I’m sorry that I’ve said some stupid dismissive white person shit in my life, for sure. But there’s a difference between apologizing for what you’ve done and apologizing for who you are... apologizing doesn’t mean anything unless you can make a change.
But you don't think there is some form of racism and sexism to tell him that he is getting an education because white boy privilege... while the classmates are being told that it is their right to get same education, they are entitled... ?

Do you really think he is having it better than his classmates?

Plotthickens
member
member
Posts: 163
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 17:21 2017

Re: MGTOW: I'm sorry I'm male

Post by Plotthickens » Thu Dec 28, 23:34 2017

Who is telling him that the standard public school education is "white boy privilege"? Nobody that I've ever seen or heard of. Every U.S. citizen up to the 8th grade (IIRC) must attend school, and public schools are provided.

You and Skeezy complain a lot about things that you say happen, but there's nothing but your word. If these grievances are so pervasive, where are they? Where is the proof? Unless you think that the evil Feminazi conspiracy hid every piece of evidence? Or could the truth maybe be that you've been fed bullshit by pathologically angry men who want to indoctrinate their hate and rage into the next generation as a form of validation for their own misplaced anger, get you so full of hate you cannot evaluate the situation with dispassionate eyes, whip up your anger so you don't look for proof, so enraged you dismiss any opposition as "too emotional" and "overly combative", so downtrodden by the hopeless outlook that you cannot raise your eyes to see the truth for yourself?

Maybe?

I mean, have you ever checked any of the MGTOW or MRA "facts" against the actual facts? They should match up, right?



Well, do they?
DaHjaj 'oH QaQ jaj gerbils vISop

User avatar
geldofc
member
member
Posts: 363
Joined: Sun Apr 3, 2:00 2016
Location: California

Re: MGTOW: I'm sorry I'm male

Post by geldofc » Fri Dec 29, 2:08 2017

i doubt a white male making poetry abt white man privilege hates themselves. you can talk about privilege and it doesn't mean it's an attack on yourself or others. :monkey:
:gf: :devil: :syringe:

User avatar
spacefem
member
member
Posts: 8100
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 1:37 2002
Location: Kansas
Contact:

Re: MGTOW: I'm sorry I'm male

Post by spacefem » Fri Dec 29, 5:36 2017

Telling someone they are privileged is not racist. You are not a victim of racism because someone called you out on your white privilege. You also can’t cancel out your privilege by pointing at some other black kid that got the same education you did, because at the end of the day you’re still white, and that’s what this poem is about. Now that I watch it he’s not apologizing for being white, he’s apologizing for the world being the way it is, and then he lists out some key differences where the world is different for him. He even says his education is a socioeconomic privilege not a race one, and you have to admit there are a lot of kids, disproportionally black, who are not in schools that nice. I’m not sure what you want him to do. He’s not offended by being called privileged, you are.
bork can eat steak with a spoon.

User avatar
Sonic#
member
member
Posts: 5581
Joined: Sat Nov 7, 9:37 2009
Location: Georgia, US

Re: MGTOW: I'm sorry I'm male

Post by Sonic# » Fri Dec 29, 10:34 2017

Wow, okay, that was a great performance.

And I didn't hear anywhere where he said "I'm sorry I'm male." Just to support what spacefem is saying, this is the general structure of the poem:

Introduction: "I'm sorry ..."
First Turn: "I say now that I would change places with you in an instance / but if given the opportunity would I? / Probably not."
Explanation: "I'm not saying that ..." (basically, don't misunderstand me saying I like privilege)
Highlighting the Other Side: "I love it because I can say fucking and not one of you was attributing that to the fact that every one of my skin color" (pointing out the benefits his privilege gives by highlighting what happens to other people due to their race, gender, or class)
Expressing Fear of Lacking Privilege: "To be honest I'm scared of what it would be like if i wasn't on the top rung if the tables were turned " (this begins to build to the crux of the poem, converting that fear into taking a stand for a central conviction.)
Crux: "I've always felt that that was unfair but I've never dared to speak up because I've been too scared /
Well now I realize that there's enough blankie to be shared. Everyone should have the privileges I have /
In fact they should be rights instead." (Fairly self-explanatory. He believes that everyone should live free from the worries he's previously outlined. He's figuratively upturned the table or the ladder.)
Unwinding the Problems: "Enough said. / No, not enough said. / It is embarrassing that we still live in a world in which we judge another person's character because of the size of their paycheck, the color of their skin, or the type of chromosomes they have." (Now he goes into stating the problems more explicitly)
Speaking Directly to Denial: " But most of all, it is embarrassing that we deny this. That we claim to live in an equal country, an equal world."
Breaking Down Why the Denial Goes Unseen: "We don't notice these privileges though, because they don't come in the form of things we gain, but rather the lack of injustices that we endure."
Wrapping Up/Returning to the Start: "Dear white boys: I'm not sorry." "It's time to take that ladder and turn it into a bridge." (Reaffirming the central point of making sure everyone is free from injustices."

In brief, I don't see how SimpleMan deconstructs the poem at all.

User avatar
SimpleMan
member
member
Posts: 166
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 10:49 2017
Location: US

Re: MGTOW: I'm sorry I'm male

Post by SimpleMan » Fri Dec 29, 21:14 2017

Sonic# wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 10:34 2017
In brief, I don't see how SimpleMan deconstructs the poem at all.
Hi, I hope you are finding yourself warm on this cold weather.

The boy in the video claims his lot on life is better because his gender and color of skin. My point is that his lot on life is not particularly better than all the other kids in his classroom, including women and other skin colors.

Hence a disconnect between his words and the evident reality of his life.

In your post you give 1 example of the so call white boy privilege, this:

"I love it because I can say fucking and not one of you was attributing that to the fact that every one of my skin color"

I picked up a different example because I quite honestly though this particular example is pretty much a pariah of a privilege... Some people assume some skin colors are potty mouths... How that makes substantially better the life of this white boy?

Do we really need a movement to fix this... privilege?

User avatar
SimpleMan
member
member
Posts: 166
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 10:49 2017
Location: US

Re: MGTOW: I'm sorry I'm male

Post by SimpleMan » Fri Dec 29, 21:21 2017

spacefem wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 5:36 2017
Telling someone they are privileged is not racist.
Hi, thanks for your comments.

Telling a kid that his color of skin is fundamentally evil so he apologized for it is... somewhat racist... I would not call it 100% racist... but at least 30% racist.
You are not a victim of racism because someone called you out on your white privilege.
I have zero privileges...
You also can’t cancel out your privilege by pointing at some other black kid that got the same education you did, because at the end of the day you’re still white, and that’s what this poem is about.
So, this is about privileges or this is about whites? Let me ask you a question... what can I do to be less white?
He even says his education is a socioeconomic privilege not a race one, and you have to admit there are a lot of kids, disproportionally black, who are not in schools that nice.
Well, i don't really know how nice his school is, to be honest... but certainly, poverty does not have a skin color.
I’m not sure what you want him to do. He’s not offended by being called privileged, you are.
In my opinion he does not understand how they messed him up... He is still a kid.

User avatar
SimpleMan
member
member
Posts: 166
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 10:49 2017
Location: US

Re: MGTOW: I'm sorry I'm male

Post by SimpleMan » Fri Dec 29, 21:29 2017

Plotthickens wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 23:34 2017
I mean, have you ever checked any of the MGTOW or MRA "facts" against the actual facts? They should match up, right?
I have gone the extra mile to differentiate MGTOW and MRAs... I am kind of disappointed on myself that after all that work they still come up together this way... I probably try a bit more to make sure the difference comes through...

MGTOW doesn't really have "facts"... we don't have a movement neither, there is not leaders and most of the people think we are closet homosexuals...

Each one of those points listed about is a difference betwen MGROT and MRAs...

As I say before MGTOW is a personal decision, sometimes the only real option to chose from... so needless to say, this is all based on personal experiences...

I know my personal experiences are dismissed as evidence of anything... but for me, they are very important. I try to learn from them and I try to avoid suffering... and if it is possible I would like some happiness too, even if it is fake video games happiness, i'd take it... that is pretty much it.

Pikachu
member
member
Posts: 235
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 9:22 2016

Re: MGTOW: I'm sorry I'm male

Post by Pikachu » Sat Dec 30, 0:38 2017

SimpleMan wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 22:42 2017
spacefem wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 19:10 2017
Being sorry for privilege isn’t a productive approach.

Using your privilege for good, that’s productive. If you got a great education how can you help others get the same education? If you don’t experience racism how can you amplify the voices of people who have experienced racism so we can stamp it out?

I’m not sorry that I’m white. I’m sorry that I’ve said some stupid dismissive white person shit in my life, for sure. But there’s a difference between apologizing for what you’ve done and apologizing for who you are... apologizing doesn’t mean anything unless you can make a change.
But you don't think there is some form of racism and sexism to tell him that he is getting an education because white boy privilege... while the classmates are being told that it is their right to get same education, they are entitled... ?

Do you really think he is having it better than his classmates?
Well...we don't know him. The privilege/oppression dichotomy is based on Marxism, therefore designed for attribution to classes of people, and doesn't translate, at least not seamlessly, to individuals.

User avatar
spacefem
member
member
Posts: 8100
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 1:37 2002
Location: Kansas
Contact:

Re: MGTOW: I'm sorry I'm male

Post by spacefem » Sat Dec 30, 9:02 2017

SimpleMan wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 21:21 2017
Well, i don't really know how nice his school is, to be honest... but certainly, poverty does not have a skin color.
I'll just pick on this bit. According to this, the average salary for a black person in the US is about half that of a white person in the US:
http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-me ... ace-2013-9

According to this page, 25% of black people live under the poverty line, compared with 12% of whites:
https://www.census.gov/newsroom/facts-f ... -ff01.html

All coincidence? Poverty is a cycle that's hard to break out of. It's hard to prove yourself, work hard in school, gain the confidence to break into the job you want, if you're poor. It's extra hard when so many people who look like you are also poor, so people assume that's what you are destined to be.

We have a FAQ topic on privilege that you might read so we aren't re-hashing concepts here:
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=43735

What does it mean to say you have no privilege? Your parents gave you nothing? Nobody's ever assumed anything good about you based on how you look or talk? Nobody was born more poor than you? This kid in the poem is talking about little things, like what do people think when he says "fuck", he's not trying to launch a movement, he's pointing out privilege. If we admit it exists we can help find people without privilege who have something to give to the world if we can see through the racism.

I read some facebook comments once on an online article about James Barry, a famous surgeon who was later discovered to be a woman who dressed as a man to get into the medical field because it wasn't an option for women. A lot of the comments were along the lines of "see, women who are smart enough can do whatever they want without HANDOUTS or ENCOURAGEMENT like these stupid feminists are asking for". Yeah... so one woman could get into the field. How many other women were smart enough to be doctors, but were unwilling to go through that bullshit? A lot I'd say since there are tons of women doctors now that we've gotten over ourselves and just let them in, but it took a movement and protests. How many men became doctors, not because they were smarter, but they were just lucky enough to be born male and we need lots of doctors but only had 50% of the population to draw from?

Why not just admit that being white/male/straight makes life easier in some ways?
bork can eat steak with a spoon.

User avatar
SimpleMan
member
member
Posts: 166
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 10:49 2017
Location: US

Re: MGTOW: I'm sorry I'm male

Post by SimpleMan » Sat Dec 30, 20:40 2017

spacefem wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 9:02 2017
I'll just pick on this bit. According to this, the average salary for a black person in the US is about half that of a white person in the US:
http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-me ... ace-2013-9
Hi SpaceFem.

This graphic on the link does not tell me anything, what jobs are we comparing here? Some jobs pay more than others, but they also might have higher entree barriers... some people work more hours than other people, and so on and go on, there is a lot of factors involve in this... so... the graphic just don't give enough information to make any conclusion.
According to this page, 25% of black people live under the poverty line, compared with 12% of whites:
https://www.census.gov/newsroom/facts-f ... -ff01.html
Then again there might be a lot of factors in place...
All coincidence? Poverty is a cycle that's hard to break out of. It's hard to prove yourself, work hard in school, gain the confidence to break into the job you want, if you're poor. It's extra hard when so many people who look like you are also poor, so people assume that's what you are destined to be.
I agree getting an education is hard... I went to college at night after being in a factory the whole day... today I am not longer working in a factory, I am making enough to pay my bills, this is why I am under poverty line... otherwise, I am working about 20 hours a week.

The part about getting in the career you want, that is not really that hard, unless you want to be an astronaut or some like that...

The part about people assume you should be poor and that somehow becomes a struggle... is 100% BS.
We have a FAQ topic on privilege that you might read so we aren't re-hashing concepts here:
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=43735
Thanks for the link, I will read it later on, I am saving the link.
What does it mean to say you have no privilege? Your parents gave you nothing? Nobody's ever assumed anything good about you based on how you look or talk? Nobody was born more poor than you? This kid in the poem is talking about little things, like what do people think when he says "fuck", he's not trying to launch a movement, he's pointing out privilege. If we admit it exists we can help find people without privilege who have something to give to the world if we can see through the racism.
Let me break this in parts:

Q. What does it mean to say you have no privilege?
A. Exactly what I said...

Q. Your parents gave you nothing?
A. I don't know who my father is. My mother was not rich but she did what she can... I did not starve, though I actually know how hunger feels...

Q. Nobody's ever assumed anything good about you based on how you look or talk?
A. I try to present myself the best I can to create a good impression... you know? Fresh shaved, clean clothes shinny shoes.. stuff like that... I like to think all this help me create a good impression on other people.

Q. Nobody was born more poor than you?
A. Yes, there is people that is born in more poverty than me.

Q. This kid in the poem is talking about little things, like what do people think when he says "fuck", he's not trying to launch a movement, he's pointing out privilege.
A. I think he needs a better education, there is not real reason why someone should use such vocabulary. Being grotesque and vulgar should not be celebrated nor a reason to take pride on... So as he said that line, I am already making a lot of judgements about his uprising, his family, his teachers, his friends... He is fundamentally delusional to think that he can drop that word and people will not make any judgment about it...

Q. If we admit it exists we can help find people without privilege who have something to give to the world if we can see through the racism.
A. then again... poverty have not color of skin.
I read some facebook comments once on an online article about James Barry, a famous surgeon who was later discovered to be a woman who dressed as a man to get into the medical field because it wasn't an option for women. A lot of the comments were along the lines of "see, women who are smart enough can do whatever they want without HANDOUTS or ENCOURAGEMENT like these stupid feminists are asking for". Yeah... so one woman could get into the field. How many other women were smart enough to be doctors, but were unwilling to go through that bullshit? A lot I'd say since there are tons of women doctors now that we've gotten over ourselves and just let them in, but it took a movement and protests. How many men became doctors, not because they were smarter, but they were just lucky enough to be born male and we need lots of doctors but only had 50% of the population to draw from?
I call this "the historical oppression of women" this is the claim that some time ago women have it particularly hard... but today... no so much?
Why not just admit that being white/male/straight makes life easier in some ways?
What ways?

In another post I talked about how I am not that much of a masculine guy, I am kind of effeminate...

Tell me how easy it is to be straight when people is thinking all the time that I am gay.... see how that works? where is my straight privilege then?

User avatar
Sonic#
member
member
Posts: 5581
Joined: Sat Nov 7, 9:37 2009
Location: Georgia, US

Re: MGTOW: I'm sorry I'm male

Post by Sonic# » Sat Dec 30, 23:19 2017

Spacefem wrote: All coincidence? Poverty is a cycle that's hard to break out of. It's hard to prove yourself, work hard in school, gain the confidence to break into the job you want, if you're poor. It's extra hard when so many people who look like you are also poor, so people assume that's what you are destined to be.
I find that especially persuasive. Cycles of poverty [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_of_poverty](Wiki)]/url] are well-documented.

That also is caught up in racial privilege. For most of US history official policies and business practices systematically took wealth from black communities, first in the form of slavery, then in the form of Jim Crow laws, and simultaneously (and to this day) in the form of urban development, real estate sales, and school segregation. The inverse of that statement is that slavery, Jim Crow laws, urban development policies, real estate sales, and school segregation often serve the interests of well-off white people by denying opportunities to the working class and to black people.

SimpleMan's appeal to "lots of factors," meanwhile, falls into a thought-terminating cliche. Yes, there are lots of factors. Two of them are systematic racism and cycles of poverty, which along with other factors manifest as privilege.
Tell me how easy it is to be straight when people is thinking all the time that I am gay.... see how that works? where is my straight privilege then?
How fortunate to merely be teased sometimes for something you're not, rather than being teased for something you are. The fact that "gay" and "effeminate man" are the categories being teased indicates that people with those qualities suffer more social pressure. Certainly, it would be easier if you presented as more conventionally masculine. That's part of privilege - the logic that (for instance) a gay man is treated better when he passes as a straight man, and (conversely) that a straight man is treated worse when he's perceived as gay.

User avatar
SimpleMan
member
member
Posts: 166
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 10:49 2017
Location: US

Re: MGTOW: I'm sorry I'm male

Post by SimpleMan » Sun Dec 31, 8:33 2017

Sonic# wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 23:19 2017
SimpleMan's appeal to "lots of factors," meanwhile, falls into a thought-terminating cliche. Yes, there are lots of factors. Two of them are systematic racism and cycles of poverty, which along with other factors manifest as privilege.
I understand the historical argument, but I also think that in modern times this historical arguments are mostly... outdated...

For instance, whatever wealth there was made out of the back of the slaves, that money is long gone, there was economical crisis, wars, parties and much more... heck no even Spain... with all the gold they toke from the native indians... still is going through an economical crisis...

I understand black people is asking: "where is the money from the slavery?" the same way all this elders are asking: "where is the money they put on the Social Security system for their retirements?" the answer for both of them is the same... there is no money.

In the other hand, there is programs in place to kind of level the field, for instance the free education for all the kids... And I see a lot of talking about buildings looking nicer or not, yet I don't think that is much more of a factor to affect grades. I for instance, would focus more in the quality of the teachers... you see? Socrates gave his lectures in public parks and streets...
How fortunate to merely be teased sometimes for something you're not, rather than being teased for something you are. The fact that "gay" and "effeminate man" are the categories being teased indicates that people with those qualities suffer more social pressure. Certainly, it would be easier if you presented as more conventionally masculine. That's part of privilege - the logic that (for instance) a gay man is treated better when he passes as a straight man, and (conversely) that a straight man is treated worse when he's perceived as gay.
I guess it is a different situation... yes there is the people that teased me, but there was also a lot of supporting people... you know.. the ones that tell you that they care about you, and they don't think being gay is something bad... and all that stuff... and then kind of wait for you to come out and tell them that you are gay... perhaps they are going to think that you don't really trust them as friends?

Anyway... my point is that this privileges stuff are thrown as a blank statement for instance "straight privileges", while some people might have personal situations where this privileges don't really show up anywhere... yet the examples of this privileges are kind of... petty...

- "I can say 'fuking'"... what does that worth for? what benefit it actually represents.

- "when I look at the top 500 CEOs, 98% of them have penises"... so what? they didn't got to those jobs by flashing their penises around... or that is how it works? I go to some place and show my penis and they make me a CEO? And then we have the case of Marissa Meyer, a woman that was made CEO of Yahoo (at the moment a top 500) because her progressive activism in Google... First year into administration and Yahoo is already out of the 500 list, recently she resigned, Yahoo is back in the 500 list... what's up with that?... great decision making... a visionary that thinks that Tumblr worth a billion dollars and Alibaba worth 20 millions... LOL. When she sat on the CEO chair, Yahoo was worth 100 billions now they are sold for 5 billions (Tumblr included).

- "if the tire of my car goes flat, I easily find someone that change it for me, free"... I am pretty sure this is not a male privilege...

- "Superman, batman and spiderman have my same skin color"... But that is not my fault, you see? the progressive ideas sometimes pull in different directions... so if in one end they are asking for more representation of minorities and the so, in the the other end they are asking for not appropriating or stereotyping this same minorities... an example of this, Speedy Gonzales is a character created to represent Mexican culture, until the day a bunch of white people decided it was offensive to the Mexicans, so they took down Speedy Gonzales... you can research this case if you want, because Mexicans where not offended by it, they loved it, but whites decided it might be offensive... Here a link about this topic:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/is ... 7661890eaa

So the options are, have a Mexican hero that dress, talks and looks Mexican, or have a Mexican hero that dress and talks caucasian, but with the skin a bit cinnamon...

Find me a comic book of a black character that have not being taken down because it ended up considered racist... But how else you draw a black character? a lot of black ink and a big nose... people already calling this racist... then... what do you want?

Then again... I invite a list of male-white-straight privileges and how they actually benefit this people...

User avatar
Rainbow Dolphins
member
member
Posts: 9707
Joined: Mon Nov 4, 1:48 2002
Location: In your closet. Armed.

Re: MGTOW: I'm sorry I'm male

Post by Rainbow Dolphins » Wed Jan 3, 2:31 2018

A person who is seen as straight white and male is judged as more credible and competent than a person who is not seen as straight white and male, as a general rule. Therefore, this person is able to do things like curse and not have their intelligence thought less of. This is only one example of something you can freely do without having your competence questioned. People of color, women and people who are queer have their work judged more harshly, on average, because they are assumed to be less qualified or less competent. To clarify what spacefem was trying to say, a person who is black may be assumed to have grown up in a poor neighborhood and to have a lesser education than a person who is white. These social factors make it more difficult to get ahead in the job market and contributes to the fact that more people who are black live under the poverty line. This is obviously not the only reason, but one contributing factor.

Nobody is saying you should try to be less white, or that it's shitty that you're a white person, but rather that you ought to acknowledge that your being white comes with certain advantages (privilege) that have nothing to do with you as a person. Yes I understand that you've decided not to pursue a career but you cannot divorce yourself from privilege, because it's in every interaction you've had for your whole life. The fact that you don't notice that the color of your skin or the fact that you are a man affects your life is a privilege in itself, people who have it affect their lives negativity are reminded of it daily.
"Everything's gonna be OK soon, maybe tomorrow- maybe the next day." -the Mountain Goats
:chainsaw:!

User avatar
SimpleMan
member
member
Posts: 166
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 10:49 2017
Location: US

Re: MGTOW: I'm sorry I'm male

Post by SimpleMan » Wed Jan 3, 8:46 2018

Rainbow Dolphins wrote:
Wed Jan 3, 2:31 2018
A person who is seen as straight white and male is judged as more credible and competent than a person who is not seen as straight white and male, as a general rule.
HI, thanks for your contribution.

I can easily debunk this claim of yours here just by quoting stuff people have say in this forums alone...

Here an example from this very same debate:

"because at the end of the day you’re still white"
spacefem

The usue does not seem to be related with privilege or anything else, but with the color of the skin.. I have asked if there is anything I can do to be less white and so far not tips for it... But if we were to reverse roles, and someone said something like this to... lets say a black person... ?

But this mild example, I can bring you quotes of stuff that people have posted on this forums and use this quotes to make a case for the argument that whites, straights and, males are perceive as ignorant dirty devils. and this is a far cry from your argument that they are being perceived as "credible and competent".
Therefore, this person is able to do things like curse and not have their intelligence thought less of.
Swearing can mean you're more intelligent - especially if you're a woman
https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/well ... re-a-woman
This is only one example of something you can freely do without having your competence questioned.
I have already, several times questioned the competence of the parents and the teachers of the boy in the video.
People of color, women and people who are queer have their work judged more harshly, on average, because they are assumed to be less qualified or less competent. To clarify what spacefem was trying to say, a person who is black may be assumed to have grown up in a poor neighborhood and to have a lesser education than a person who is white. These social factors make it more difficult to get ahead in the job market and contributes to the fact that more people who are black live under the poverty line. This is obviously not the only reason, but one contributing factor.
... Apparently my answer to that have not being clear enough...

People that is racist will discriminate blacks, swearing or not, education or not, wealth or not... You can tell all you want about the socio economic factors of minorities and the cultural stereotypes and all that jazz, and do all the good work on that matters, and at the end of the day... nothing change, because people that are racist does not care for any of that...

Likewise there is also people that hate whites, so great for feminism, because now we have more equality, now everybody is discriminated equally...

The thing is, that there is also people that is not racist towards blacks, then blacks can find opportunities there, while whites need to do the same and find opportunities with people that is not racist towards whites...
Nobody is saying you should try to be less white, or that it's shitty that you're a white person, but rather that you ought to acknowledge that your being white comes with certain advantages (privilege) that have nothing to do with you as a person.
A little snapshot of my privilege live, so you can turn green on envy of how much privilege I have:

While I was working in a factory, with a very nasty grease all the way up to my elbows... I was also going to college at nights, trying to get some education so I can get a better job, a regular day, at that time, looked like this:

Wake up at 6 in the morning to be at the job at 7 AM, expend my day in this factory with some of the finest men I have seeing: they cursed, they hide my tools and sometimes they like to play to grabs other people arsess (though they claim they are straight)... All of this, while having to hit the production goals, as I said, with grease all the way up to the elbowls... So I can collect my minimum wages check... Time to clock out was at 7 PM

Class at the community College starts at 7 PM... that is right, they overlapped that nicely... Boss was not willing to let me clock out earlier and some of my professors were not willing to understand why I was late... But... somewhere between 7 PM and 7 PM I had to find the time to get that grease out of my arms, and pedal (that is correct, no car) the 15 minutes between job and community college.

Class ends some days at 10 PM some days at 11 PM, depending on schedule... then there is the pedal again, to my small apartment in a not so nice neighborhood, I can pedal to be in the apartment, in like 30 minutes, eat something take a shower and to sleep...

The pedal back always offer a hard decision to make... you see? in the fastest direct route there was a gay club, and some of this patrons... would like to stand outside, and while I pass by they liked to flatter me with their wilds... So my options where to take the faster direct route, or to go all the way around...

Eventually I was able to get me a better job... I got me a really nice job... manufacturing... but this time for one of the fortune 500 companies, so that means double the money, they buy me gloves for the grease and, air conditioner... finally some of my straight, white, male privilege started to pay off... I got me a car and, a mortgage (that ended up on eviction, but that is a different story).

So the opportunity to get a promotion presented itself, I can now be supervisor... I have all the requirements, including my community college degree... but there was also a black woman that wanted that job, she also have a college degree... I would not say it was easier for her to get an education, just because her father is a doctor and so she was able to be a full time student... so she applied too... and at some point it looked like it was going to be 1 of us, so that is 50% chance to go up... then she reported that I sexually harassed her... I know there is 2 sides for every story... my side of the story is that I never said anything she claimed I said, I was not even in that office she claimed stuff happened, and I have never touched her in any inappropriate way... that is my side of the story. She got the job.

And there you have it... a slice of the life of a white, male, straight privilege life.
...The fact that you don't notice that the color of your skin or the fact that you are a man affects your life is a privilege in itself...
Then, why I shave? why I make sure my clothes are not wrinkle? Why I try to smile when I talk? am I wasting my time? all I need to do is to flash my penis and people will think I am the best? All my worries about physical appearance are silly? that is stuff only women need to worry about?

Skeezy
member
member
Posts: 270
Joined: Fri Jun 9, 12:05 2017

Re: MGTOW: I'm sorry I'm male

Post by Skeezy » Wed Jan 3, 14:36 2018

Well white priveledge is a thing because of the lack of roadblocks.

I can't speak for a lot of the ethnic groups because I am only part of one, "African American" even though I believe many slaves did not come from africa due to whole ships being lost and bad conditions etc. Anyhoo

I know a lot of foreign races face all kinds of adversity from where they come and once they get to the U.S.

However as a black male I must say we face the most inside adversity. We dont get tax breaks for starting and owning a business like most immigrants, thus all the foreign shops in black neighborhoods. They get 5 year tax break, pass it to a relative who gets tax break etc.

White priveledge has to do a lot with the people in charge and the 1%. It also has to do with the roadblocks that white leaderd put up against people of color.

Basically the government has done a lot of cruddy things that still apply today. Such as lie about history and they still teach that same packed full of lies history in school today.



Another thing is the war on drugs which was actually a hidden plan to to eliminate the unity of black people and the black panthers by arresting the panthers leader and then flooding black neighborhoods wth crack cocain. Which they then started a war on drugs after putting the drugs there and that cycle which started the deep rooted drug culture in poor black communities is still alive and well. Which also leads black people in certain areas being treated as 2nd class citizens regardless of wether they are involved or not.

Thats just one of many cruddy things some people know, some dont know and some dont believe. But the fact all that is true is actually easily researchable. Thanks to ex cia coming forward and the drug dealers who worked for the cia.

Basically white leadership has put many others down while keeping themselves on top by any means necessary and often mischieviously. Since they did not instill roadblocks like this for other whites, by default whites have a privilidge a lot of black people dont have due to lack of the adversity and social adversity caused by such heinous acts.

I think the boy and his poem hit the nail on the head when he said turn the ladder into a bridge.

Its impossible for your average white person to take responsibility and say I'm sorry for the acts of evil men. Education and a push for change is all we can do.

I was actually hoping Obama would help civilize the war on drugs but.... Hilary did mention the problems with the prison system and its business aspect briefly in some of her speeches. Trump however has not said anything...go figure.

The fact that white supremecy is built on a very large pack of lies makes me hate that they are tolerated and protected as much as they are in todays society.

One thing to level the playing field so to speak is to go back and teach everything white people purposely left out or changed about history to make themselves feel superior. There are a lot of trickle down effects from the hatred and racism that have not been addressed. This partly adds to white priveledge.

At the very core, no white person in power has made a list and said, this is what happened, this is its effects, and this is an attempt to make things better. No one has publicly admitted America has been using hateful tactics similar to nazis to influence society. Until that happens, in my eyes, white power/priveledge is alive and well. A lot of white america didn't believe there is still a fairly large racial divide until recently. Because they dont see or live with the reprecussions of a hate that is still thriving.

@plotthickens
Much like most feminists dont know what its like to walk in a mans shoes. haha. Just a little jab.

User avatar
Storage and Disposal
member
member
Posts: 6300
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 5:31 2004
Location: Iowa
Contact:

Re: MGTOW: I'm sorry I'm male

Post by Storage and Disposal » Thu Jan 4, 1:51 2018

SimpleMan wrote:
Wed Jan 3, 8:46 2018
Rainbow Dolphins wrote:
Wed Jan 3, 2:31 2018
A person who is seen as straight white and male is judged as more credible and competent than a person who is not seen as straight white and male, as a general rule.
HI, thanks for your contribution.

I can easily debunk this claim of yours here just by quoting stuff people have say in this forums alone...

Here an example from this very same debate:

"because at the end of the day you’re still white"
spacefem
I think you might be confusing the word 'debunk' with 'ignore'. Anecdotal observations of things you seem unable to understand don't really debunk this claim.

Not getting a job because you're white or a man or whatever you're trying to say doesn't negate the fact that white men are generally treated in ways that others should be, but aren't. With that type of logic, you might as well believe your area is suffering from a famine every time you're hungry.
"He weeps for he has but one small tongue with which to taste an entire world." - Dr. Mungmung

User avatar
SimpleMan
member
member
Posts: 166
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 10:49 2017
Location: US

Re: MGTOW: I'm sorry I'm male

Post by SimpleMan » Thu Jan 4, 2:17 2018

Storage and Disposal wrote:
Thu Jan 4, 1:51 2018
Anecdotal observations of things...
I am getting tired of this argument... lest set this straight...

Feminism base all their claim in statistics... this is basically... a collection of "anecdotal observations..." .

Somehow my own observations worth nothing, but have a feminist ask another 10 feminist to fill out a questionnaire and all of the sudden we have "research"...

I am serious here, if my method is not acceptable for me, then it is not acceptable for anyone.

I get this "anecdotal" patronizing dismissal again and I will create a new forum debate calling out all feminism research nothing more than anecdotal observations that worth nothing.

User avatar
Storage and Disposal
member
member
Posts: 6300
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 5:31 2004
Location: Iowa
Contact:

Re: MGTOW: I'm sorry I'm male

Post by Storage and Disposal » Thu Jan 4, 2:25 2018

I'd like to see this, mostly because it might get you banned and your brand of trolling is kind of boring.
"He weeps for he has but one small tongue with which to taste an entire world." - Dr. Mungmung

Taurwen
member
member
Posts: 358
Joined: Sat Jul 2, 9:33 2016

Re: MGTOW: I'm sorry I'm male

Post by Taurwen » Thu Jan 4, 10:51 2018

I don't know if you misunderstand what statistics are, or what research is...

Anecdotally I learned both in high school and why they are more important and/or useful to discussion than anecdotes.

Locked